Armor Officer Headed to Aviation Captain's Career Course, Ever Heard of this?

[Armor_Warrior]

Over the past 24 hours, some crazy things have happened. I called my branch manager to reserve a slot in the November MCCC down at Ft. Benninng, GA that he told me was open two days prior. Apparently somebody got the slot before I could reply. As the Armor guys know, that course is backlogged till March 2011. I told him I was fine with that course date and then he told me, that I couldn't wait that long. He said since I am currently a Captain in my unit, I count against the Brigade's number of Captains therfore he can't send any Career Course Qualified Captains to this Brigade until I leave. That's when he recommended I go to the Aviation Captain's Career Course at Ft. Rucker, Alabama in December. I reiterated that I am not a pilot, and he said it was fine since all Captain's Career Courses in the Maneuver Arena are pretty much the same. The next thing I know I have an ATTRS slot for Aviation Captain Career this December.
Here are my concerns:
1. I branched Armor to maneuver tanks on the battlefield and learn other Armor related things. Going to this Aviation course doesn't not seem like a good move for an Armor Officer especially when my peers are at Benning learning the trade (Although I heard that they took the Armor Focused training out of MCCC when it combined with Infantry.)
2. I am afraid I will show in a future battalion commander's office looking for Company Command and he is going to see that I am an Aviation Career Course Grad and be like WTF am I supposed to do with you?
3. As I said before, I am not nor do I ever desire to be a pilot, I'm sure each branch has its own language, I don't want to be sitting in this class wondering what exactly is being said cuz I don't know the lingo. (feels like it would be setting me up for failure personally)
4. Also, in order to go through this course I have to complete SERE. I will go and do it, but at the same time I am not excited about, anybody that has gone through can you provide details.
I have asked a few of the field grades in my chain of command and they thinks it's great for the following reasons: If I were to go to the MCCC I would be surrounded by other guys that know Armor, this allows me to learn something new and insert my expertise in ground maneuver to the Aviation, there is also the possibility of earning a Master's with this course similar to Engineer Captain's Career (is this true anyone?), and because of the unique assignment I will more than likely get my top choice assignment coming out of it (before you start yes, I know needs of the Army but he claims he knows a buddy that got to pretty much choose. I have been constantly going over this in my head and I am looking for advice from Armor and Aviation Career Course graduates alike, and particularly anybody that has gone this route, thanks.

[Jake the Skillet]

My advise, don't do it. The experience works both ways. I learned a lot from the other Manuever guys, having been a manuever guy. AND they send AV to the MCCC, because it's applicable. Keep the MAR slot and the BDE can just suck it up. If it's MAJ ****, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed either. Could consider calling up his chain if you fell it's worth it. Oh, and the Armor thing, they do have quite a bit of Combined Arms Teams/Task Force orders, and is still covered. Just my .02. Unless you want to be someone's S-3 Air.

[Armor_Warrior]

Actually, it was Captain B, but likewise.

[Wes]

Annnnnnnd we don't put people's last names on the internet.

[Hokie173]

I'm currently in the Aviation CCC and there are two armor guys in my small group. Their knowledge of ground maneuver has contributed a great deal to our group while learning MDMP. The first fight you'll do at CCC is a Heavy BCT fight. CCC teaches you the process, not tactics, and MDMP is not branch specific. CCC is meant to prepare you to be a staff officer and that process doesn't change from branch to branch. Going to an alternate CCC isn't going to hurt your armor career and "the BDE can just suck it up" is kind of a selfish response to what is really a non-issue. Waiting around for months and months for a MCCC slot doesn't make any sense.
You ARE NOT required to attend SERE-C to come to AVCCC. Only aviators who didn't attend it while they were at flight school have this requirement. You are however afforded the opportunity to attend SERE-C if you choose to. It's probably the best Army school that I've attended. It's a suck fest, but you'll learn a lot.
There is no Masters Degree associated with AVCCC.
Send me a PM if you would like and I'll try to get you in touch with the two Armor guys in my class. Otherwise, best of luck with your decision.

[Un4given]

Holy cow, Hokie is around?

Anywho... Best advice right there. He hobbles around the AVCCC building all day.

If you can get it, why not take in SERE while you're down here? It's a great course and it's something you may never hear of another Armor officer having. Probably not a huge discriminator, but nonetheless good to have.

[Jake the Skillet]

Annnnnnnd we don't put people's last names on the internet.

There's been people on hear talk about who they contacted at branch. If someone wants to edit please feel free.

Going to an alternate CCC isn't going to hurt your armor career and "the BDE can just suck it up" is kind of a selfish response to what is really a non-issue. Waiting around for months and months for a MCCC slot doesn't make any sense.

I guess I wrote that wrong. HRC is the one that wants to stick a CPT there. BDE could likely care less. It's not about "hurting your career", it's about the cost benefit. To me, it would be worth the cost of waiting to go with other Maneuver guys because you would learn so much from each other. The MCCC has FA, AV, EN and SF dudes coming from all sorts of different branches. It's not so much about the corse work, it's being around other dudes like you for networking, SOP's and ideas. Many of them commanded for a year or more in Theater. You can take a lot away from that when they are a fellow student. I think that if you went with AV, you can learn all sorts of stuff about AV, and that would help you a bunch...but that's what an XO (Log) and an FSO (Attack) is for. Hope I clarified a little....

[I274]

Although everyone wants to re-bond with their compatriots in their branch, you get a much broader experience by going to another school. The armor and FA guys in my Infantry Advance Course were great, and gave us a perspective of combined arms tactics that we couldn’t get from anywhere else. In my time, going to another branch school was not considered bad, and in many ways was a sign of someone who was a fast mover. We didn’t have any duds from other branches at Benning. Armor branch doesn’t want to send anyone who will reflect badly on them, so consider it a feather in your cap to considered. (If you were at the Benning MCCC and a dud, you wouldn’t be noticed (much). But at another school, you stand out.)

I would also recommend talking to your Armor School reps to get them to send you some course material from the MCCC. If you are going to represent your branch at Rucker, you need to speak with authority. In the past, the “other” branch officers would have to take a correspondence course prior to going to another school, or a short TDY back to their school to get hosed down on their knowledge. It’s a lot of work, but you’ll be called upon to speak up for the ground maneuver guys and it helps to have some doctrinal knowledge in your backpack.

And don’t worry about consideration for company command. You’ll probably be assigned in a staff job somewhere on post, and put on the waiting list – so they can look at you and compare to others in your situation. Recommend you identify the senior Armor officer on post and ensure he knows who you are, and that you are looking forward to command. He will probably already know your name, but will need to size you up.

And I’d much rather be sent to Rucker, than Sill, or somewhere else. You’ll identify with the attack guys right away.

[Sammy Sandbag]

You ARE NOT required to attend SERE-C to come to AVCCC. .

Unless something has changed in the last 21 days, yes you are. Every CPT in my AVC3 class attended SERE-C, unless already qualified. Engineers, Infantry, Acquisitions, FAO, etc. It was a pretty straight forward requirement when I started the course, with the BC and CC reiterating it on numerous occasions.

[Hokie173]

I'll get some clarification on this point on Monday, but SERE has been mentioned very rarely in my class, and when it has it was in reference to aviators who hadn't attended yet. My SGL has spoken about it to our small group and very much made it sound like an option that the non-aviators should pursue but weren't required to. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, if someone ends up here with a chance to go they should jump at it.

[Armor_Warrior]

Thanks, for all the advice. This is all new to me and I don't recall anybody else talking about it in my circles. Based on the advise from Hokie and I274, I'm looking at with a whole new perspective. Hokie, look forward to finding out about SERE-C and PM Sent about the Armor guys.

[Sassy05]

I agree with everyone on attending SERE-C. We get a lot of slots here being in USASOC, but it's really hard for anyone who isn't actually a 37-series. Our last S2 had to pretty much argue his way into a slot. It's highly uncommon for regular Army personnel, save aviators, to get to attend SERE-C.

[stingray185]

Good call,
It is not that uncommon for a manuver guy to go to the AVN CCC. i know a couple of Armor guys who have done it but that was primarily becuase there wives were AVN. But it should not hurt you that much. with the complet lack of CCC officers in BCTs right now (at least in mine), no one would care if you had gone to the AG CCC. You would have honestly be hurting your self more by waiting for a CCC then by getting on a command slate earlier. I was on staff for two years as a CPT before I went to the CCC, it didn't mean a damn wheni showed up at my new BCT. I went to the back of the line.

[armor19c]

I'm in the same boat (armor officer going to AV CCC).. I head to CCC 6MAR at Rucker.... Can anyone shoot me some info on the basics of the course and the best locations to live..

[Sammy Sandbag]

I graduated the course a couple months back, then SERE-C, now AMOC. My SGL was Armor and I had one fellow OIT who was Armor. There was a sprinkling of Infantry, a heap of Engineers, and a gob of CA (they send a lot to AVC3 due to the SERE requirement and no CA CCC.)

The course's core curriculum is TRADOC mandated and doesn't differ much from the other Manuever branch CCC's. You'll get the same Org of the Army, MDMP, FRG type of training as anywhere else. There is a bit of Aviation focus later in the course in your last two WF exercises, which are as a Med-CAB and finally company level ops. You'll also get inundated with the post speaking tour (AV Branch, CRC, ASDAT, DES, etc...) You'll also get an opportunity to go through HOST (dunker), combatives, and time in the sims.

I can't tell you how attending AVC3 will affect your career as a DAT, but not getting a CCC will surely hurt. You will get SERE-C, which most of your brethren will not have an opportunity for. And you will also come away with a broader picture of the Army through interaction with your classmates, most of the useful training takes place in your small groups anyways. You'll also be a SME for your first fight, which is Heavy-BCT. They also ran a CavLC at the end of my class, which I would have attended if not for SERE. You may get that chance as well (if you haven't done so already.)

Sounds like you have lots of time before you report, so I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle as far as where to live. Housing usually has surplus, and you can even live in quarters as a single officer (and pay according to whether or not you take on a roomate.) Off-post you have several choices. Three towns right outside the gate; Enterprise, Ozark, and Daleville. Enterprise being the largest, probably your best bet. Ozark is a bit of a hike, and offers little. Daleville, the smallest and crappiest of the three, is the closest to the cantonment area. If you are looking for a larger town with more than a Super Wal-Mart, then you need to look at Dothan, which is a ~30min drive to the gate.

Let me know what other specifics you need.

[spikeyhair456]

Hi, I've never been to Ft. Rucker before and have a question about getting around on post. currently i live on the west coast. i'm wondering if i'll really need a car to get to all the classrooms/training areas for the Captains course. I'd rather not drive cross country just to have a car for the course if i really don't need one. if anyone has any info about this they can get me i'd really appreciate it... thank you.

[I274]

You need a car.
Unless they have a BOQ within walking distance of the classrooms, you'll need some basic transportation.
What are you going to do on weekends and down-time? Sit in your room?

[Un4given]

Wow, no car? Are you from california? lol

Get a car even if a cheap one.

[Associate289]

Worried about increasing your carbon footprint? Hippie.

[Hokie173]

You would be a moron to not have a car. There are no BOQs in walking distance, especially since its 100 degrees out during the summer. Unless you want to smell like an armpit. You'll be doing PT off post at least once a week. How were you planning to get around for 6 months?

[Sammy Sandbag]

This question is confusing me. You are going to the CCC so obviously you have been in the army a few years, how the heck have you functioned up to this point? Even if you are guard, you had to go to OBC or spend just a little time on a post.

You'll be doing PT off post at least once a week.

That would be up to your SG, we didn't do that.

You will however be doing things off-post almost weekly. You could, if you really wanted to be a pain, ride a bike. But you'll be mooching off others all the time for a ride. And what are you going to do once you leave the course?

[Associate289]

Even if you are guard...?

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. This is what my marriage counselor calls an "cold prickly". He says that while discussions can get intense and there can be yelling, there are no "cold pricklies" allowed.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. This is what my marriage counselor calls an "cold prickly". He says that while discussions can get intense and there can be yelling, there are no "cold pricklies" allowed.

I think you took that the wrong way. I'm saying that even if you are NG, where you might not be stationed at an AC Post, and your current living conditions and work arrangement allow for not owning a car; you would still have been experienced enough Army-wise to realize the need for a vehicle (especially as an officer.) Now go back to being lazy, under-trained, and ignorant of all things related to your job.

[Skull6]

...there are no "cold pricklies" allowed.

Freakin' party pooper!

[Associate289]

I think you took that the wrong way. I'm saying that even if you are NG, where you might not be stationed at an AC Post, and your current living conditions and work arrangement allow for not owning a car; you would still have been experienced enough Army-wise to realize the need for a vehicle (especially as an officer.) Now go back to being lazy, under-trained, and ignorant of all things related to your job.

Oh ok. Thanks for clarifying. I thought for a second it was some kind of underhanded insult. I guess I just jumped the gun. My apologies. I'm glad we could work this out.

Hey, wait a second...