Reply With Quote
I've been following it pretty closely as well. Sounds like the only yhing that it has making it a gen 5 fighter is the anti-radar capabilities.
The range is much further than the 22, but it has an old engine that doesn't have the speed.
I mentioned this briefly in TMPTOAT
I'm being real bad at work right now by continuously checking updates on info as it comes in
a couple pics for now
Man, we should have cloned twenties. Jackson wouldn't have given a shit.
I've been following it pretty closely as well. Sounds like the only yhing that it has making it a gen 5 fighter is the anti-radar capabilities.
The range is much further than the 22, but it has an old engine that doesn't have the speed.
Un4, do you REALLY think they're going to tell you it's actual stats?
It's like saying "Sure the SR-71 can do Mach 2."--when we all now know that it can exceed Mach 2--& then some.
P.S. What Mach level will your airframe be able to do?
"What you fear controls you. Take charge of your own life!"
Probably not, at least not hard stats on it but maybe rough stats.
This day and age unless it's a breakthrough in tech it's really not that secret. Regardless, I think we can knock anything out of the air if we wanted to.
Just as long as you're not assuming that others don't feel the same way.
"What you fear controls you. Take charge of your own life!"
I bet they do... Why is it just now they're coming out with a 5th gen? Because they cannot hang with the big boys. Hell, The 22 is old to us now lol!Originally Posted by Skull6
In addition to internal advancements (capabilities, cockpit etc...) that's what pretty much makes a 5th gen aircraft. That's why even advanced aircraft such as the Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet etc... are not considered 5th gen (usually considered 4.5). They're advanced, and while they have a lower RCS, they are not low observable aircraft.
The engine is apparently a variant of one that is installed in a version of the Flanker family (there's a gazillion versions, and I can only tell one or two apart) I would not be surprised if this engine is only for the FSD airframes (or whatever stage of development this is in), and they go with a thrust vectoring model later. But then again, it would not surprise me if they choose to keep the current engine just to get it fielded quicker.
ha ha ha... Luckily speed isn't everything. Low and slow with a big gun is sometimes betterP.S. What Mach level will your airframe be able to do?
Yeah, they've been lagging behind in low observable tech, but they've tried before this. Look up info on the Mig 1.44. They were looking into plasma stealth, but that didn't work out too well. But...
Considering how long ago rumors of the PAK FA first surfaced to first flight, they've worked remarkably fast, partly because I'm guessing they're designing a good chunk of this aircraft based on existing tech. The engines are from the Flanker family, the gear has been commented on being similar to what they tested on the Su-47, the conventional layout, and it similarities to the F-22 and YF-23... Meaning, they're hoping to field this quickly, which also means cheaply, which implies a greater quantity than otherwise possible. And knowing how Russia feels about export... I would suggest this airframe is a perfect example of how the US cannot stand content with existing tech and force structure.
Sarcastic rant likely to bore most of you below
[spoiler:2m7s9hvc]Man it's a good thing the AF is getting 1,500 F-22s! Oh wait... Let's cut our order to make it cheaper...
Good thing the AF is getting 800 F-22s! Damn, why did the per unit cost go up? Oh well, let's compensate by cutting the order again...
Good thing the AF is getting 360 F-22s! Damn it! Why does the per unit cost keep going up? Alright, lets cut it once more.
Good thing the AF is getting 187 F-22s! The fly away cost per airframe is a little over ~100 mil, but lets justifying the order cuts by claiming each F-22 cost 360 mil, and not put the price in context. Cuz you know 100 mil sounds like a lot, but its only 10-20 mil more than new build Super Hornets or Strike Eagles.
Oh, and let's not let everyone think about it for a second a realize that 187 airframes do not mean we'll have 187 airframes at our disposal to fight any threat immediately. Let's not let people realize that a handful of airframes will remain at Edwards AFB for testing purposes, a few at Nellis and Edwards for weapons testing, and weapons school, and about 2 dozen or so at Tyndall for training. Not to mention the need for attrition spares.
And if anybody suggests that we need more fighters, don't worry, lets throw all our eggs in one basket and throw our support behind the F-35. Let's disregard the fact that only FSD airframes for the A and B model have flown, and that every argument that killed the F-22 program can be applied to the F-35 project as well. So yeah, no production F-35s have flown yet, and the estimated cost per airframe will be ~100 mil (let's hope no one realizes how much a F-22 really costs!), but let's use the F-35 program as an excuse to end production of the F-22.
But don't worry if the F-35 falls through too. Since you know, every future conflict will be low intensity insurgencies and that UAVs are the future.[/spoiler:2m7s9hvc]
Man, we should have cloned twenties. Jackson wouldn't have given a shit.
I'm not surprised it was about time, I figured they had something in the works. It should have thrust vectoring capabilities, since they were the first to implement it on a fighter jet. I read an article that Top Brass recognizes the Russians were about 20 years ahead of us in thrust vectoring technology in 2003. I guess the F-22 project is not dead after all, some Senator will use this as a reason to build more.
TG made my point... Sure there's a lot of publicity for a 5th gen fighter, but they barely meet the requirements!
And Skull... OSint is a beautiful thing and very hard to keep something concealed these days, especially something so high profile. Of course there will be secrets, but there's stuff that will get out.
You know what they call an aircraft that nobody knows anything about? A UFO. lol
"Plasma stealth" ROFL!
"Back in the day," I thought that just meant "Yeah, that very well could be Moscow glowing over there to the east (I was stationed in Western Europe at the time), but I'm not going to go over there to find out--so I can't confirm your suspicions!"
(For those that don't get the joke, google the terms "plama" & "thermo-nuclear"...)
P.S. Last I looked into it, even "doppler" radar-like detection devices gave off a signature. TG, without making me chop my own head off & freeze it, do you know if this is being addressed to any efficient degree?
Oh, & I can remember when engineers were pulling their hair out, trying to figure out how to keep a low-sig when any munitions door was opened! (Yup...that's OLD!
"What you fear controls you. Take charge of your own life!"
Don't know too much about radar capabilities, or anything about F-22 tactics, but supposedly one method of employing the F-22 would involve having one aircraft (or another type of aircraft other than the -22) have its radar on, while the F-22 would remain low observable. So, say for example, the enemy aircraft picks up an American aircraft 25 miles away and starts to prep to engage it. Little do they know, there's a F-22 only 15 miles out already engaging them. Remember that scene in Jurassic Park where the skilled hunter is getting ready to kill one of the raptors, and then suddenly a raptor appears right next to him? Same principle.
Also its worth noting, that while the general perception is the purpose of the F-22 is purely to take on the enemy one on one or one on six or whatever (meaning air assets vs air assets), the role of the F-22 goes beyond that. The F-22 has an excellent sensor suite, and airframes such as it and the F-35 are designed to gather information an disseminate it to every other US asset in the area. Essentially increasing the situational awareness of every US asset in the air. So while many think the F-22 is out there by itself taking on enemy aircraft, in reality it is helping everybody else in the air perform their job that much better as well. Systems such as Link-16 that are currently in use are great and everything, but no matter what you are limited to the information put into it, so the greater your information gathering systems are, the greater you can use systems such as Link 16 to its full potential.
You know how the quarterback has a radio in his helmet? Well, Link 16 would be kinda like putting a radio in every players helmet. Everybody is on the same page, and everybody is getting the same information. Further, by adding a F-22 to it, is kinda like replacing your QB with Peyton Manning. Suddenly everybody on the team can read the defense like he does.
Man, we should have cloned twenties. Jackson wouldn't have given a shit.
+25 points for using a Jurassic Park reference when talking about low-observable fighter aircraft.
~Cady
"SCOUTS OUT!"
"Even now, in Heaven, there are Angels carrying savage weapons." ~ Saint Paul
You got me... I <3 skull. lol
Yeah... TG just unloaded everything the enemy is NOT supposed to know onto a forum that gets roughly 100+ Google visitors a day.
You say that like it's a bad thing. I'm proud that we're the Internet's best-kept secret.a forum that gets roughly 100+ Google visitors a day.
~Cady
"SCOUTS OUT!"
"Even now, in Heaven, there are Angels carrying savage weapons." ~ Saint Paul
You got me... I <3 skull. lol
It's a good thing, I was just making a point about what TG says on here.
thank god I'm not in the AF, or OSI would investigate me for all of the "highly sensitive" information I give out here.
I have a friend in the AF who hooks me up with information almost daily via email. He's one of my best sources, so I won't give out his name, but his emails are under the secret codename "usafnews" and "pressrelease" Keep that on the DL ok?
Man, we should have cloned twenties. Jackson wouldn't have given a shit.
Hahahahahah, nice!
~Cady
"SCOUTS OUT!"
"Even now, in Heaven, there are Angels carrying savage weapons." ~ Saint Paul
You got me... I <3 skull. lol
Just as long as you're not giving anyone "confirmation."
"What you fear controls you. Take charge of your own life!"
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks