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cornbread
29 April 2004, 09:19
its amazing how narrow some peoples minds are.

http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/dis ... f27f0591be (http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/04/28/408f27f0591be)

it seems as if she would prefer the army to be made up entirely of people in a lower economic class or driven simply to make money.

::ADMIN EDIT::
The link seems to be working on and off, so here's the copied article:


By Rene Gonzalez
April 28, 2004


When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."

But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.

Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.

Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.

Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.

Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths.

Rene Gonzalez is a UMass graduate student.

Murtin
29 April 2004, 10:27
That article was truly horrible... I joined the rest of the shock and appaled in giving that ungrateful**** (<--- insert the "Cee U Next Tuesday" word here) a piece of my mind

Associate289
29 April 2004, 10:35
what a complete asshole... among many other things, calling the war in afghanistan unfounded?? give me a fucking break...

Maverick
29 April 2004, 11:52
That article got sent out over my team distro, along with the email address of its author. After I stopped shaking, I realized that no amount of profanity or invective could begin to convey the rage I felt at such an ungrateful, illogical display of how twisted some of our more "educated" members of society have become. I thank God that people like this will never be in any real positon of authority or have any real decison-making power.

neo
29 April 2004, 12:31
Remeber... HE is from UMASS... what do you expect?

And he grew up in Puerto Rico. Start paying federal taxes and then you can interject your opinion on shit like this.

TheTokenGook
29 April 2004, 13:59
This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.
Rot in hell you fucking egg head

Sammy Sandbag
29 April 2004, 14:51
If you really want this prick to know how you feel, why not write him a little note.

renegonzalez7@hotmail.com
rene@student.umass.edu

and his website
http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/stunt/187/

TOPIC MOVED TO All Grades Club

HerdROTC
29 April 2004, 16:27
I'd love to see this dip shit get thrown in a line unit. The Israeli's have the right idea of forcing every guy into the military for a set period of time. What this guy fails to realize is that Tillman was the real deal in every sense of the phrase. Not only was he a stud on the football field, but this guy graduated(which is something most college-pro football players can't say they did.) Tillman graduated with honors, he had something like a 3.87 in the field of marketing. Thats impressive as shit. This shit just pisses me off. I think it mighta been said in an earlier post, but how many people really go into the military for pride in their country? Not too many. Tillman apparently drove 450 miles to a recruiting station to get his papers for basic just so no one would recognize him. This guy was all class. He wanted nothing more than to be just "one of the guys." For someone to say what they said about him is not only a slap in the face to Tillman, but to his family, to veterens, to every person serving right now, and to the future officers and soldiers like ourselves. It makes me happy to see that people still get pissed off by this liberal ass hole bull shit. Makes me feel not so alone. Thanks for posting this and letting me vent. I needed it :evil:

Holt
29 April 2004, 18:11
Just cuz i'm not on food stamps, i'm a pendejo?

murph-y
29 April 2004, 18:49
yea guys i am totally with all of you. i mean the guy gave up all that money to go in as a specialist and protect little ignorant fucks like that. even more, i don't understand how someone can say shit like that about someone who gave their life to protect our way of life. i would lay my life down right now to protect the US and have no regrets. people who sit there and write negative articles about the military are the same gutless fucks who would cry and beg not to be killed instead of standing up and saying no! all i know is that everyone who puts on a military uniform no matter what branch is a hero wether they die or not. if someone unfortunately does die in the line of duty i give them more respect because they died for something that they believe in. how many can say they did that?

ZaQ
29 April 2004, 18:49
......that stupid bitch! I know that in this country we have the 1st amendment that grants freedom of speech but goddamn, some people shouldn't be allowed to talk like this. I thought the liberal hippies were in favor of people making thier own choices. Tillman made the choice to serve his country over a multi-million dollar contract. It was his choice to make and he made the decision he thought was best. I really get fucking tired of these goddamn hippies contradicting themselves. At my school we beat up people for saying shit like this. Tillman is a hero. He died for something he believed in, and to me that makes him a hero.

Sorry for rambling on, but shit like this really pisses me off. My blood pressure was almost normal today until I read this. Now, I'm really pissed off.

neo
29 April 2004, 19:20
ESPN is now doing a story on this dickwod.

Lets send his ass back to Puerto Rico. Though he is probably one of those bitches who chains himself to a tree in the middle of a navy weapons testing zone

Domer
29 April 2004, 19:23
"Ensign... Aim for that tree what's got the spik on it!"

"Aye aye, sir!"

Associate289
29 April 2004, 20:33
"Sir, should I take the penis out of my mouth first?"

natedogg42
29 April 2004, 21:02
Yeah, what you guy said, only with a whole fucking hell of a lot more profanity.

I miss being a minor...the days when you could kick someone's ass and only get a talking to or some shit...there are so many people that I want to beat up so badly now that I am 'adult' GOD!@#$it.

What a little mother fucking cocksucking cumbag. At least everything that I've seen related to the article is bashing that sorry little fuck. (comments left on the site where it was written)

Sammy Sandbag
29 April 2004, 21:04
The ESPN article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1792200


The column drew harsh criticism from many on campus. University president Jack Wilson says the op-ed piece was "disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature."

Ya think?

CombatCady
29 April 2004, 21:16
It's simple. He should be executed. That's it.

Sammy Sandbag
29 April 2004, 21:19
I just hope that he gets the treatment he deserves from his fellow students at UMass. I'm sure his email inbox is flooded by now with people like us, just letting him know how they feel.

The Associated Press article on Tillman's posthumous promotion to corporal and a bit on the Gonzalez article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118580,00.html

Holt
29 April 2004, 22:09
An idea if anyone wants to take the effort and do it... and be evil:
Take his emails and register him for free gay porn emails or something even worse. I've been fighting the temptations to do that to some douchebags around campus here...

Maverick
29 April 2004, 22:40
Hmm. . .so he doesn't appreciate the rights and freedoms that people like Tillman have guaranteed for him. A pity that someone can't truck him on down to North Korea or somewhere even worse, seeing what is is like to live in a country that doesn't have the liberties he now enjoys. I predict he'd last, oh, 10 minutes before pissing off some NKA soldier and gettin himself shot.

CDThardass
29 April 2004, 22:42
i sent that mother fer a few emails, gave him a piece of my mind, and yea holt sign him up for gay porn

Zirkowitz
29 April 2004, 23:59
sounds to me like Rene Gonzalez was turned down by one too many cadets at UMass. No one in their right mind would write worthless divel like this. horseshit like this isnt worth giving two fucks about.

cornbread
30 April 2004, 12:54
toughest guy i've ever see, he must get all the women.

Gambit
30 April 2004, 15:52
Here's another good one...

http://www.celluloid-wisdom.com/pw/imag ... mpass2.jpg (http://www.celluloid-wisdom.com/pw/images/renecompass2.jpg)

Sammy Sandbag
30 April 2004, 16:21
That's hillarious.

Associate289
30 April 2004, 16:33
holy shit i pissed myself on that one

TheTokenGook
30 April 2004, 16:50
:lol: :lol: :lol: That's great man

Ckim715
30 April 2004, 19:26
ahahaaa brilliant!

Sammy Sandbag
1 May 2004, 23:31
http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/04/30/news/news04.txt

Rene offers an apology.. of sorts.


‘‘I offer my apologies to the Tillman family,'' Gonzalez wrote yesterday in an E-mail to WBZ-TV. ‘‘Despite my disagreements with them over the meaning of their son's death and the wars that we are fighting, I shouldn't have been so insensitive.

‘‘It has provoked a backlash, but I don't think a reasoned debate. I'd rather not inflame the issue anymore,'' he told WBZ.

God this guy is an arrogant asshole. He can't even make a decent apology without sounding like one. What a half-assed attempt.

Maverick
1 May 2004, 23:35
wow. . .he can't even apologize. What an asshole.

Gambit
2 May 2004, 00:53
On the bright side, it's nice that things like this are getting printed:


Senate Minority Leader Brian Lees of East Longmeadow said he was embarrased for Gonzalez. ‘‘It's a sad day when a student is calling a hero an idiot,'' he said. ‘‘It's because of people like Pat Tillman that he can write things like this.''

Especially that last part, you don't hear it enough outside of strictly military circles.