LTC (ret) Glenn Lackey writes about Kerry.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Vietnam vet speaks out on Kerry.


I know dozens of retired military professionals. None of them support you - there is a reason for that. They all served honorably and well, and they all believe that you did not. I know war heroes, and your, sir, are no war hero.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jaybryant/printjb20040303.shtml

[TheTokenGook]

I've never understood Kerry's seemingly anti military stance, particularly when it comes to Vietnam.
Is there any reason he only served 4 months? I'm guessing because his troops were getting ready to shoot him.

[Ckim715]

I can't stand Kerry. Civilians just don't know the whole story.

[Associate289]

kerry's a complete fag... i sure hope he doesnt get elected, or we'll be right back to square one in dealing with terrorism... maybe he'll ask dean to be his running mate... or does the constitution prevent two complete homos from running on the same ticket?

[cornbread]

well, he did earn a purple heart, bronze star, and silver star...what constitute serving well?

[Sammy Sandbag]

well, he did earn a purple heart, bronze star, and silver star...what constitute serving well?

I think it's more about his actions following Vietnam that have a lot of veterans upset. For all I know, he served honorably, but he definately lost my respect with his protesting and more recent voting record.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Thank God the NVA wasn't tossing footballs at our boys:

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040228/i/r1633574988.jpg

[She-ra]

You know what though? He did his duty, unlike a lot of people during that time, and I think that gives him the right to say what he wants about it. I may not agree with it, but at least he has some basis to form his opinion.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Sure he's got the right to say whatever he likes, just like any American. But I draw the line when you start protesting a war and throwing your medals over the White House fence while your buddies are still being killed overseas. He was all buddy buddy with Hanoi Jane for Christ's sake. What does that do for a soldier's morale to see an ex-soldier performing such acts?

[She-ra]

Thats true, I just think he has a little more of a leg to stand on because he was actually there. I don't like the man, I really don't, but at least he knows what it was like.

[roger29]

I agree with you she-ra on some note, but agree more with sammy...that's the least I can do since he "never listens to what I say"...

Kerry, as an american has the right to say what he feels, but being that he was a soldier, he should have some sense of honor to respect the men he fought and served for rather than throw it in there face as I feel he did. On many levels he sounds like a good guy to be leading, however, and this is a big however, our biggest issues right now are the war on terror and our involvment in Iraq. If he were to take office, I believe he would royally screw things up with his ideas of approaching the subject.

On a side note, I don't know if you were insinuating anything by saying that Kerry has earned a right to say his peace above others that Bush didn't serve his country...I know that he was only in the guard and that he wasn't a war hero like Kerry, but I look at it like this...Yeah, he wasn't fighting a war, but, he was a fighter pilot, which is a dangerous job to begin with. And such, even if he were "in country" fighting in Nam, how much danger were pilots in during the war? Not too much more than back home...Charlie don't surf and they certainly don't have the capablilities to shoot down fighters...

[cornbread]

are you saying fighters werent shot down in vietnam? do you remember McCain? or any other fighter pilots shot down and sent to POW camps for years?

[Associate289]

And such, even if he were "in country" fighting in Nam, how much danger were pilots in during the war? Not too much more than back home...Charlie don't surf and they certainly don't have the capablilities to shoot down fighters...

i was agreeing with what you were saying until you wrote that.... that is a completely idiotic statement... go tell a pilot vet from nam the danger they were in was "not too much more than back home"... u should know what ur talking about before you open your mouth

[roger29]

No, no, no, that isn't what I'm saying. I am just trying to say that being a fighter pilot is dangerous by itself and that maybe people give Bush too much shit for not being in vietnam. Sorry, I re read what I wrote and it does sound like I wasn't getting what I meant out.

[Associate289]

oh ok... i retract what i said... my bad

[Gambit]

I am just trying to say that being a fighter pilot is dangerous by itself and that maybe people give Bush too much shit for not being in vietnam.

I read that Newsweek article a few weeks back about Bush and Kerry and the war, it actually noted that Bush asked to go the to war, but was turned down because his airframe was obsolete. So apparently he tried to get over there, although nobody seems to be saying that too loud...

[PvtTurtle-with-a-Helmet]

Apparently he tried to get over there, although nobody seems to be saying that too loud...

You'd think Bush would be buddying himself up with the military as much as he can. Seems strange no one would make a big deal out of that, unless, of course, his rich daddy made sure he was flying something obsolete to keep him out of 'nam.

[MAJ. Payne]

My opinion: Bush punked out on Vietnam by having daddy get him a job with the guard. I think that is clear and if you think something other than that your kidding yourself. Why else did Bush join the guard? College money? I don't think so. No disrespect to the those guardsmen who honorably serve today, but I have a problem with the way Bush did business (thats did business, not how he does business today mind you). I never liked him to begin with (I thought McCain would have been a better choice for the Republicans) and he knew that by joining the guard there was no way he was going to Vietnam, and I have a real problem with that. Maybe its because rich people make me sick to begin with, but whatever. Its just another example of how he rode daddy's coat tails. Ok, I better stop before I continue bad-mouthing our president and really piss some people off.

[Gambit]

Its just another example of how he rode daddy's coat tails.

For the sake of argument, isn't that what politics is all about? You don't get to run the most powerful country on the planet because you're rich, or because your good-looking, or even because you're famous... you get there because you know people that will support you in any way possible. So with that in mind, what's wrong with riding daddy's coat tails?

[Sammy Sandbag]

he knew that by joining the guard there was no way he was going to Vietnam, and I have a real problem with that

Let's not forget that Bush was just like any other college kid at the time. Do you honestly think that he made the concious decision to join the Air Guard himself as a way out of Vietnam? For all we know, he may have wanted to serve as an infantrymen. When you've got a father in high places, your ability to choose your own destiny often becomes null and void. Even without a wealthy parent, most high school to college age kids are highly influenced by what their parents recommend for them. And in all honesty, whould you not also try to protect your child at all costs from such a danger as the Vietnam War. However wrong the decision may seem today 30 years later, it might have been a parent's only choice. This country has elected a president who openly admitted to fleeing the country at the time with less recoil than this. Bush served more time than you or me in a far more turbulent era, I'll be a little more forgiving when passing judgement.

[Gambit]

Here's the Newsweek article that I referenced above... it's from the 23 FEB 04 issue. Regardless of your opinion of this publication, some interesting points are raised.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4271520/

[TheTokenGook]

Don't forget McCain's father and grandfather were Admirals. Not saying that he doesn't deserve his job as Senator, just pointing it out.

[MAJ. Payne]

Great article! It does raise some interesting points and I feel a bit more enlightened after reading it. However I still maintain that Bush took the easy way out while Kerry joined up and went to Vietnam two years earlier, making him the bigger man in this case.
Sammy, you make some real good points and I'd have to agree with you on some, but I am less forgiving than you in passing judgment by the fact that John Kerry did exactly what George Bush didn't do. Despite Kerry being governor of the People's Republic of Massachusetts, I still admire the fact that he graduated from Yale and then decided to go serve in Vietnam. My gripe isn't with Bush's service, its in the difference between him and Kerry. And that he was a rich boy. :wink:

In response to him riding daddy's coat tails as a way into politics, I don't agree with this either. Our democracy is essentially an aristocracy save a few exceptions. When was the last time you heard of a politician whose father was a bricklayer? It is a sad fact that in our political system he who has the money will win. Just look at John Corzine in New Jersey who practically bought the election 4 years ago (yes I am a big supporter of campaing finance reform). But this is an entirely different issue that belongs in another thread.

[Gambit]

My gripe isn't with Bush's service, its in the difference between him and Kerry. And that he was a rich boy. :wink:

See, that's something that always amuses me... some people like to say that Republicans are rich and for the fat cats, while dems are "for the people"... but Kerry has more money than most of his constituents put together. Regardless of their history (honestly, I'm not well-versed enough to speak to either candidate), "rich boy" applies to both of them now.

[PvtTurtle-with-a-Helmet]

A throwback, good-time frat brother, young Bush had little use for the antiwar movement. On the other hand, he didn't want to go to Vietnam. Draft deferments for graduate school were ending that spring of 1968. The Texas Air National Guard offered another way. "I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada," Bush explained to The Dallas Morning News back in 1990. "So I chose to better myself by learning how to fly airplanes."

I just read the article and it seems to me Bush admits to avoiding the war. It doesn't say anything about Daddy Bush getting him put in the Air Guard, either. Not that I really like Kerry; I voted for the unicorn (http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/indecision2004/index.jhtml). I wanted John McCain in the last one and Edwards in this one.