Aviation

[roger29]

What are the specifications? Can you have poor eyesight?

[Sammy Sandbag]

20/50 but must be correctable to 20/20. You have to have full color vision and no depth perception problems. Just remember that they are looking for guys with 20/20 though.

[Sammy Sandbag]

If you are feeling really bored, you might want to glance over AR 40-501, which covers all medical requirements (not just for aviators) According to it:


(1) Distant visual acuity. Uncorrected distant visual acuity worse than 20/50 in each eye. If the distant visual acuity is 20/50 or better in either eye, each eye must be correctable to 20/20 with no more than 1 error per 5 presentations of 20/20 letters, in any combination, on either the Armed Forces Vision Tester (AFVT) or any projected Snellen chart set at 20 feet. (See ATB, Distant Visual Acuity Testing and APL, Decreased Visual Acuity.)

(2) Near visual acuity. Uncorrected near visual acuity worse than 20/20 in each eye; with no more than 1 error per 5 presentations of 20/20 letters, in any combination, on the AFVT or any Snellen near visual acuity card. (See ATB, Near Visual Acuity Testing and APL, Decreased Visual Acuity.)

You can read some more here (http://docs.usapa.belvoir.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r40_501/head.asp), but chapter 4 is the only one that really applies to aviators.

[roger29]

Nothing of this is waiverable? I also heard that transferring as a CPT is easier with poor vision...lasic?

[Sammy Sandbag]

Nothing of this is waiverable? I also heard that transferring as a CPT is easier with poor vision...lasic?

No it's not waiverable. I'm not sure about branch transfering in as a CPT. I would assume you'd have to meet the same standards.

[roger29]

Damn, that blows! I want to fly real bad.

[Sammy Sandbag]

What's your vision right now (near and far)?

[roger29]

Near sighted. Used to be 50/20 in left, 60/20 in the other...but my vision has gotten a little worse.

[Gambit]

Near sighted. Used to be 50/20 in left, 60/20 in the other...but my vision has gotten a little worse.

Damn, that's actually REALLY GOOD... I think you mean 20/50 and 20/60. ;)

FYI, those numbers are "normal" and "you" numbers... 20/20 means that you can see something that's 20 feet away from 20 feet away... 20/50 means that you have to be 20 feet away to see something that, with perfect vision, you could see from 50 feet away. That's why 20/15 is great (you can see from 20 feet what you should need 15 for), and why 50/20 and 60/20 are fucking awesome.

No idea where the 20 feet thing came from, so don't ask. :P

[Sammy Sandbag]

Damn, that's actually REALLY GOOD... I think you mean 20/50 and 20/60.

I was about to say something on that too. If that were your actual vision, they'd probably branch you MI, then just tape you to the bottom of a U2 to save money on satellite imagery.


But seriously, you wouldn't be able to pass the flight physical with that vision. You can be no worse than 20/50 on far vision, and must be 20/20 on near vision, and it must be correctable to 20/20. Not too mention the other tests they run, which most people have more difficulty with.

Sorry about that Roger, but there are plenty of other high speed branches which don't require good vision.

[Hammer6]

ARMOR! I don't know why you wouldn't want to branch that anyways... Some people..

[roger29]

Yeah dude, armor is cool, I really want infantry since avation is a no-go...

P.S. FU all, I made a little mistake, christ, you all knew what I mean! LOL ;)

[Gambit]

ehh... everybody wants infantry. but why run around shooting people when you can just crush 'em like little grapes? ;)

[Hammer6]

Gambit. thats hilarious. that just became my away message.

[Gambit]

glad i could help.

[jehgunnz]

hey sammy, how'd you do on your AFAST? Think a stud can prepare himself for the test in 2 weeks time with a Arco test guide?

[Sammy Sandbag]

hey sammy, how'd you do on your AFAST? Think a stud can prepare himself for the test in 2 weeks time with a Arco test guide?

I'll just say that I did very well. It was probably the main, if not only, reason I made it into aviation. I'm not big on dropping scores, for the same reasons I see no point in asking people's OML or NALC scores. The main point is to try your best and be prepared. When I took the AFAST, the minimum passing score was a 90 and the average for Aviation LTs was around a 120. The amount and time you need to study really depends on you. I personally didn't really study for it, but I'm an exeption not the rule. I've been flying fixed wing since I was 15 and my prior knowledge helped me with the majority of the exam. However, learning the material isn't going to get you a high score. The main emphasis of the exam is to make you answer quickly. The Arco test prep will give you more details than I can remember, but the test is broken into timed sections. Each section only allows a few seconds (yes seconds) for each questions. If you are a slow test taker, better start practicing. Another difficulty is that the exam books are usually very old and poor copies. This can make the attitude correction part of the exam difficult, as you can't really tell where the horizon is. The personality section of the test is pretty staight forward, be honest, but also use your common sense. Army Aviation is looking for technically minded individuals. If it asks you "would you rather: A. plant a garden or B. work on a motorcycle", answer B. Like I said, pretty straight forward.

Keep in mind that if you fail the AFAST, you have to wait 6 months before you can retest. The sooner you take it, the better. I took it my sophomore year just in case. For you younger cadets out there, it behooves you to take it now, rather than waiting till your MSIII year. Even if you aren't really sure you want Aviation, just take it.

[thepanther]

Sammy, thanks for the straightforward info on the AFAST. I'm also interested in Aviation branch. What insight can you shed on Aviation OBC? What phase are you in now?

[Sammy Sandbag]

Sammy, thanks for the straightforward info on the AFAST. I'm also interested in Aviation branch. What insight can you shed on Aviation OBC? What phase are you in now?

No problem. I'm currently between phases, or in a "bubble". There are three phases, phase one being just inprocessing and basic military classes (EO, UCMJ, Law of War, NCO/O/WO career development, etc) and it only last two weeks. After that you start phase II which is comprised of IERW (Initial Entry Rotory Wing), instruments, nights. Then in phase III you do BCS (Basic Combat Skills) which is where you learn to apply tactics to aviation and vice versus. After that you go onto AQC (Aircraft Qualification Course), where you'll learn how to fly a specific model (UH-60, OH-58D, AH-64, CH-47.) They're now developing a new system called Flight School XXI, where you do all your BCS training in your track A/C, instead of flying a OH-58 up until AQC. This means you earn more hours in your specific airframe, but less overall hours. Only a select few (A/C dependent) officers are being put through FSXXI. Right now they are pushing WOs through the program.

Just remember that I just got here, so I'm not the OIC on the matter.

Also, something I failed to mention earlier about preparing for the AFAST. I believe the Arco book comes with a few practice tests. These are probably the best way to prepare. Study the book a little till you feel comfortable with the info, then take the practice tests. Just make sure you take them just like you would the real thing. Don't time yourself, get a buddy or cadre member (they'll be the ones giving you the real one) to actually time you with a stop watch.

[thepanther]

What do you do while you're in the "bubble" and how long before you start the next phase?

[Sammy Sandbag]

What do you do while you're in the "bubble" and how long before you start the next phase?

Basically a bubble occurs when there isn't an opening for your next class or phase. The Army term for this is casual duty. You have PT every morning at 0600 and have a casual duty "formation" at 1000 at company HQ. I put formation in quotations because all you do is show up in a classroom and they take attendance. After that they usually start asking for volunteers for different jobs. For example, last Friday I had to put address stickers on invitations for a social function, then on Monday I was suppose to be at Aeromed to test out some new NVG helmet setups in a UH60 sim, that got nixed because they needed qualified aviators. Today everyone on casual duty had to help clean up the company building because the CG was stopping by. Tomorrow morning I have to be at the 9mm range to load magazines, and on Friday I'm Brigade SDO. Right now they are looking for LTs to be on funeral detail, but I'm hoping to avoid that. So basically it's a lot of bs type of tasks.

As far as knowing when I'll start Phase II, your guess is as good as mine. The last class got filled up with National Guard students and RA LTs who had been waiting.

[Holt]

I've asked a few officers and the answer always changes, so I'll put it to y'alls infinite wisdom:
Laser vision correction, what are the considerations as far as the Army goes? Do they accept it? under what circumstances? etc.

[Sammy Sandbag]

As far as I know, no they don't. I'll try and remember to ask a flight surgeon the next time I'm at the hospital.

[Gambit]

Re: the laser correction thing... I believe that the Army is doing the procedure for soldiers now (actually, read an article on that a few years back now), but that it's still on the "NO-GO" list for getting INTO the Army. So, you can't have it to join, but you can get it once you're in. A classic example of adding great stuff but not fixing the old shit. Wheeee!