Role of the PSG and PL [Archive]

dbuntz

15 February 2006, 09:49

For new LT's the relationship between a PL and PSG can be difficult to express at times, but I mentioned this analogy to an LT friend and he said it is one of the better ones he'd hear and I thought I'd express it to you.

"In garrison, your platoon is like a boat in drydock. I (the PSG) am responsible for getting the boat ready for sea. I'll clean and paint it. I'll get the engine ready, and check the rudder. I'll stock it and fill it with gas. You can check on the boat but you can't have it till it's ready. But you need to concentrate on navigating, knowing how to sail the seas.

Once the boat goes to sea - you plot the course and steer the boat, and I just keep it supplied and running well."

Sounds simplistic, but it really explains the roles of each leader.

Aries

15 February 2006, 09:52

much better than the usual "me NCO, you cherry LT, you listen to me, dont do anything stupid" that we usually get.

FullMetalJacket

15 February 2006, 09:53

That's never been an issue with me. The analogy I NEED to be reading is how to overcome the excruciating pain of the 2-miler, and "Don't be a pussy" isn't what I'm talking about. 8)

Un4given

15 February 2006, 10:25

I knew that's how it rolled... But really good analogy.

So while the boat is drydocked does the LT just take a LOA? haha

Seriously... What's the main role of the LT while not at war?

airjun

15 February 2006, 10:29

i love how, through out your entire cadet career its " listen to your ncos, listen to you ncos...." then a few months before you comission its "dont let them make you their bitch"

dbuntz

15 February 2006, 10:32

Un4given - "concentrating on navigating" is what a PL does during garrison. There will be the usual amount of counsellings and paperwork you'll have to do.

But start working on knowing how to lead, adapt, and roll with changes. How do you handle a mission that you've got no idea of what to do? How does a new LT handle $500,000 and the responsiblity of establishing a new city government? Bet you're thinking "BS! the Army would never ask me to do that!" Guess again.

Are you a critical thinker? Are you flexible? How do you handle criticism? Being a 2LT is like OJT - we know you don't know much - but we're going to see how you handle it before we give you more responsibilities

dbuntz

15 February 2006, 10:37

Full Metal Jacket - "Pain of a 2miler?" 2 mile run??

Come on now - if you have difficulty with a 2 mile run, you need to get out and exercise more. No analogy in the world is going to make that easier. Being in better shape is the only thing that makes it easy.

Check out - Crossfit.com. If you don't like to run, there are workouts here that help. Now, these workouts will make even the fittest guy cry - but they help all aspects of fitness including your run time.

I'm a 38 yr old grizzled PSG - and I still run in the low 14's. Your body will get used to the APFT - as the slogan goes...Just Do It

Skull6

15 February 2006, 10:51

Seriously... What's the main role of the LT while not at war?

To PREPARE for it's inevitable happening, of course.

(& contrary to the LT in "Heartbreak Ridge," it ain't to aspire to become the president of the local gamers group.)

I274

15 February 2006, 11:23

Seriously... What's the main role of the LT while not at war?

To know his job; and all his subordinate's jobs;

you can't lead unless your troops see you as competent in your position - that you know how to do what they do (and can do it better than them).

Not just job competence... it also includes knowing your troops - at a personal level - to be able to counsel, mentor, and discipline them.

Your main job is NON-STOP LEARNING.

Krizo

15 February 2006, 12:06

How does a new LT handle $500,000 and the responsiblity of establishing a new city government?

I'd love having that on my resume when/if I left the Army.

Skull6

15 February 2006, 12:53

Krizo, go Armor. That number goes up exponentially when you factor in 4 M1A2s.

I274, you forgot one other position that they should learn ASAP. How to "step up." They should be looking into how to perform in at least one position higher as well. otherwise, dead on--continue to engage.

(We used to say "3 down & 1 up." All officers & NCOs were to be effective in their own position, as well as be "experts" on the 3 ladder positions below them & at least one above them as well. Want to be as ready as you can be? Imagine your BN CO looking at you in combat & saying "OK, LT. You're now Bravo Company's CO...Charlie Mike!"

CombatCady

15 February 2006, 13:11

Imagine your BN CO looking at you in combat & saying "OK, LT. You're now Bravo Company's CO...Charlie Mike!"
Happened a lot in The 'Nam, from what I read. Always a good idea, I reckon. Great analogy, dbuntz. It's great to have old-timers around that can throw experience like this down to us.

Skull6

15 February 2006, 13:31

CC, we used to train for such an event during our FTXs. A MILES kill at Graf in Germany meant that the vehicle couldn't move anymore, the crew could monitor their radio, but the next in line needed to know when & how to pick up the ball & run with it.

I went from being a PL to the CO to the Bn S3 all in one morning's 4-hour battle once. The biggest bitch was re-programming all the new freqs I needed to try to keep things going! We ended up losing the battle, but the OCs said that they had never seen a unit be so flexible & ready for such an event before (I wasn't the only one that had to climb the COC at light speed that day). (Seems someone was feeding the OPFOR our command units' locations for arty & surgical strikes.)

I learned some outstanding lessons that day, that I'll probably never forget! I know many others in my unit did as well. Just something to keep in mind. Thank goodness that, while we were ready for it, we never had to do something like this in DS--when the REAL DU rounds were a'flyin!

Besides, it's never too early to atart learning about positions you very well could actually find yourself in in the future, through the normal course of events. Just make sure that you know your shit in regards to your present position before you undertake such an endeavor.

I274

15 February 2006, 14:04

How to "step up." They should be looking into how to perform in at least one position higher as well.
(We used to say "3 down & 1 up." All officers & NCOs were to be effective in their own position, as well as be "experts" on the 3 ladder positions below them & at least one above them as well. Want to be as ready as you can be? Imagine your BN CO looking at you in combat & saying "OK, LT. You're now Bravo Company's CO...Charlie Mike!"

thx skull. exactly, right on.

the USMC has a phrase they follow... "one bullet away"

You are one bullet away from assuming your boss' job.

And that leads to developing your subordinates. Same thing goes for them. They need to be able to do the same thing. (you read about it in every AAR from the box... a leader gets shot/wounded, and someone steps up immediately and takes charge.)

Wes

15 February 2006, 17:26

You are one bullet away from assuming your boss' job.

Doesn't have to be a bullet. When I got pulled for the EOD detail I was the most senior guy out there for the security guys. So I was running the entire security(2 HMMWVs and about 7 guys) while EOD disarmed IEDs around Baghdad.
So just by getting pulled for a detail I went from M203 grenadier of a fire team to a squad leader running PSD ops throughout Baghdad. Try running a squad of SPCs and PFCs who haven't worked together before with no team leaders. ::wtfo::

Skull6

15 February 2006, 17:55

Wes, sounds like one of those "moments to excel" that we get tasked with all to regularly...

"You there. Take this & go do this." No "buts"...you just go & do it as best you can.

armynurseboy

15 February 2006, 18:01

i love how, through out your entire cadet career its " listen to your ncos, listen to you ncos...." then a few months before you comission its "dont let them make you their bitch"

Well it's true. A good LT (and officer for that matter) knows how to listen to advice from folks who may be junior in grade but senior in experience, yet make the final decision and stick by it...because guess what, it's yours to make not the PSG. And it's your butt in the sling if the decision is bad, not anyone elses.

CombatCady

15 February 2006, 18:18

armynurseboy

15 February 2006, 18:36

it's yours to make not the PSG. And it's your butt in the sling if the decision is bad, not anyone elses.
Hooah, but I've heard of plenty of PSGs going to bat for their LTs who may have made a mistake. That's another quality of a good PSG, imo - loyalty.

Exactly. LT's are going to make mistakes. It's the nature of being an LT (and why I hated the zero defect mentality that was pervasive when I was an LT). The idea is to learn from them and not make the same one twice (which IMHO is the worse sin).

Skull6

16 February 2006, 10:44

P.S. It's also the LT's duty to cover the collective asses of those in his unit--to include their PS.

IF my guys screwed up, I had screwed up. My Commander didn't come down & "have a discussion" with one of my E-5s who had done something wrong. I went to the carpet over it. & then let it roll down hill or stop it where it needed to be stopped.

Big lesson here folks. Some of you might have never had the opportunity to be fully responsible for others yet. I saw my officer-ship as one more of service to my subordinates than the other way around. & the best way to do this effectively is to stay on top of things (especially when it pertains to your position or has something to do with your platoon) & bust your ass to make things right & better.

Do what you can to make the PS's job of "maintaining the fleet" as easy as possible, while prepping for war. They're going to be returning the favor in kind anyway--if their worth their weight in salt, at least.

CombatCady

16 February 2006, 16:38

Roger that, Ol' Man.

Skull6

16 February 2006, 16:43

CC, "Ol Man"'s meaning during WWII was applied most often to Captains--who were usually the "survivors" of the lower officer ranks (usually in their early 20's in age.)

I WISH I could be that age again! Thanks for the compliment!

CombatCady

16 February 2006, 17:09

CC, "Ol Man"'s meaning during WWII was applied most often to Captains--who were usually the "survivors" of the lower officer ranks (usually in their early 20's in age.)
Yeah, I know. My use of the nickname has nothing to do with your rank, merely your age (and experience).

acedeuce

16 February 2006, 17:24

So what do you prefer Skull? Older then other old dudes old man?

Skull6

16 February 2006, 19:08

Right now, given my current rank & position?

I'd rather y'all just call me by my first name...

Skull6. ;-)

(But if'n I ever meet any of ya face-to-face, I'll give you my real first name to call me--how's that?)

acedeuce

16 February 2006, 19:10

Sounds good. I just meant what you preferred instead of Ol' Man, i.e. Cady's grandpappys daddy, or really really ridiculous old guy, or smells like death, #1 consumer of depends in colorado, etc.

Associate289

16 February 2006, 19:10

I believe you already posted your real name here once, and it sounded French. At least the last name did. And the funny thing is, I have a friend by the same exact name...

acedeuce

16 February 2006, 19:11

Are you two real life "friends"!?! ::wtfo:: I bet you met in some internet chat room and Associate said his name was Trixie and he was 16. Thats not funny man, thats just fucked up.

CombatCady

16 February 2006, 19:28

Cady's grandpappys daddy, or really really ridiculous old guy, or smells like death, #1 consumer of depends in colorado, etc.
Wow, and I thought I gave you a hard time... That was vicious.
Funny, though, lol.

acedeuce

16 February 2006, 19:30

Haha. My apologies skull. I probably shoulda added one of these " ::lol:: " or something.

Cerebroden

16 February 2006, 20:05

OH HELL NO!!! that fucker's name had better have not been Trixie...FUCKING SACRILIDGE (or how ever the hell you spell it) oh and on that note.......

I miss Trixie, I miss my Trixie, I want to play with Trix, I miss my Trixie, My oh my I miss my Trixie, I miss my Trix, I just want to play with Trix, I miss my Trixie, Trixie I miss you!

Now you made me cry ::sad::