convince me...

[Ckim715]

oh why I shouldn't just drop out of ROTC and go for 11B...I want infantry, and I know I won't be fully happy without it..if I enlist, I'm pretty much guaranteed 11B...if I go through ROTC, I doubt I'll get 11A. Convince me to stay/leave/opinions.

[cornbread]

well, what do you want out of the army? when you initially decided to do ROTC what was it you told yourself that convinced you to sign up. i think if you look at the reasons you joined it might give you more direction. some people do it to shoot the big guns, others for another reasons. ROTC and comissioning are a big comittment. so is enlisting. figure out what you want to get out of the army and maybe thatll help....i dunno, thats my 2 cents.

[Gambit]

how about food stamps? or, not being on them as an officer?

[Ckim715]

I did it for the Army. I wanted my college degree, but either way, I plan on doin 20+ years...

[The Sharaffe]

Do ROTC and get a degree. One, the standard of living between enlisted and officer can't be fully explained without seeing it. Two, if you are good enough to do Infantry, you'll get branched it. If you are a shitbag, and don't get it, than it wasn't right for you anyway. Third, EVERYONE wants to be Infantry when they get intrested in the Army, it quickly wears off after you sleep on the ground for a week or so and it never gets above freezing.

LT, OUT

[Sammy Sandbag]

I'll second what Gambit and The Sharaffe said. First of all Ckim, what year are you? I hear these type of questions coming up often from sophomores and younger. I know it may seem like you really want to be a jungle bunny and get all dirty and play guns in the woods all the times. And if that's what you want to do, then fine, we need people who are willing to do that for us. But, don't waste the opportunity that you have by not using your college degree. You'll go from leading infantry troops to being constantly told what to do if you don't receive a commission. Yes eventually you will become an NCO and be in charge of troops, but the level in quality of life and pay are far lower than an officer with the same time in. You say you want to spend 20+ years in now, but no one can predict the future. You may end up hating it, but why not hate it with better pay and perks. And if you are worried about not getting IN, don't worry. The vast majority of cadets get their first choice, and if not, you can always branch transfer. I looked up all my camp buddies on the branching list, and every one of them got their first choice. Every cadet at my school got their first choice except one. But if you really need convincing, go talk to your battalions senior NCO. I guarantee he'll slap you across the face for even thinking about throwing away such an opportunity. Often an opportunity that soldiers like him didn't have because of financial reasons or because they didn't have the grades to make it to college. Think about it.

LT Sandbag

[Ckim715]

actually, my battalion senior NCO was very level headed about it. He gave me a good idea of both NCO and Officer life..and for our ROTC, every MS4 EXCEPT 1 didn't get their first choice..

[Sammy Sandbag]

actually, my battalion senior NCO was very level headed about it. He gave me a good idea of both NCO and Officer life..and for our ROTC, every MS4 EXCEPT 1 didn't get their first choice..

Well sounds like you need to transfer schools more than dropping out of ROTC. As for your SNCO, I'd say he's one of the few. We've had this discussion with ZaQ before, but of course he's still in high school, I'd expect it out of him. Anyways, I assume you are already well on your way to earning a degree. It wouldn't make much sense to not use it. Going the officer path will also set you up for a better job in the civilian world. Yes, even if you spend 20 years in, you will still need a civilian job when you get out. As a IN 2LT you'll automatically go to airborne (if you haven't already) and Ranger School right after you finish IOBC. You'll have to put in several years in as an E before you'll even see Ranger School.

[Gambit]

I'd also note that I know of at least one person who demanded a re-assessment to IN after he got Chem Corps... and got it. So, don't forget that where there's a will, there's a way. Learn everything you can about getting ahead in the military, and work it like nothing else. NOTE: I'm NOT saying be a spotlight ranger or anything... but if you pride yourself on being a stellar cadet and helping those around you improve, everything will fall into place.

[Sammy Sandbag]

This same thing happens every year around this time. The branch results come back, you start hearing the horror stories about how nobody got their first choice. Then like clock work you get all these MSIII, II, and I all of a sudden changing their minds around. If you go on to some of the other military forums out there, they all got flooded with young cadets asking the same damn questions. "What was your OML rank? How'd you do at camp? What are the chances of me getting this branch? What if I get Chem Corps? etc." Listen, just do your best and put your top choice at the front of your list and keep your fingers crossed. If you don't get what you want, like Gambit said, there are plenty of ways to get things fixed.

[airjun]

ahhhh yes...every MSII goes through the should I enlist phase.... the bonus money and action seems tempting as by the 2nd year you are bored of college and very broke ...thats my case anyway

[StuporMunky]

SMP is for you. You'll get a garunteed branch...if you stick w/ ur unit. You'll get to play soldier more often, and with REAL GUNS! I'm not sure if you can still go active after SMP-check it out.

[Ckim715]

err when I say dropping out of ROTC, I don't mean dropping out of College. My SNCO made it clear that no matter which route I took, my degree was important, and I intend to stay in college. And this thinking started back in October, not recently...it's just something I've been struggling with recently

[Sammy Sandbag]

Well I've said my piece. But any prior enlisted in your batt should have some insight. I'd bet they'd agree with me. I know you were't talking about dropping out of college, but a degree is something not necissary to enlisting. But Gambit probably said it best: "how about food stamps? or, not being on them as an officer?"

[Ckim715]

I've really thought about it, and I'm still torn. Right now I'm an MSII, contracting in April...I mean ever since I was a kid, I've always wanted Infantry..I have no clue as to what my 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices are...as for switching schools, I'm at Hopkins ROTC, which I believe is ranked 4th in the nation...I was surprised as all hell when I found out that almost all of the MS IVs didn't get their first choice...

[Sammy Sandbag]

Maybe they were just a bunch of douche bags? Like I said, do your best put Infantry as your first choice. I don't know you personally so I can't judge whether or not you'll get it, but cadets who do well obviously get there first choice. Worst case scenerio: you don't get what you want, and you go through some pain in the ass paperwork and get it changed around. It really pays to have the cadre on your side for that, so don't go making any enemies.

[Ckim715]

see that's the thing though..these MSIV's were some of the most squared away soldiers i've ever seen..I'll probably stick through with ROTC, but damn enlistment and RIP straight out of AIT sounds tempting..

[Sammy Sandbag]

If these guys are truly squared away, I'd say that your PMS is screwing them over. And I don't know where you heard about RIP staight out of AIT, unless things have changed in the past couple years, that's near impossible.

[The Sharaffe]

Fine, the thing to do is to enlist. Write us back after 8 weeks of; Getting treated like a a piece of shit, getting paid 12,000 a year, and hanging around a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. My 2 week pay will be more than you make in a month, and I'm treated with about 10 times the respect. Go for it, college was boring anyway...all those keg parties, and getting laid. Who needs it, I want infantry!

[Ckim715]

I never said I was dropping out of college.

[Sammy Sandbag]

I never said I was dropping out of college.

There I fixed it:


Fine, the thing to do is to enlist. Write us back after 8 weeks of; Getting treated like a a piece of shit, getting paid 12,000 a year, and hanging around a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds. My 2 week pay will be more than you make in a month, and I'm treated with about 10 times the respect. Who needs it, I want infantry!

[Ckim715]

lol thank you sir!

In all honesty, I will most likely stay in ROTC. Like you said, branch transfers can be done...thanks for your opinions, it's helped me out quite a lot.

[Sammy Sandbag]

lol thank you sir!

In all honesty, I will most likely stay in ROTC. Like you said, branch transfers can be done...thanks for your opinions, it's helped me out quite a lot.

No problem, that's what I'm here for. I hope you do stay with the program and get Infantry. But, this is your life and we can only give you our little bit of experience as guidance. I simply hate to see cadets led estray by what they're currently feeling. I too was tempted to drop out of ROTC and was thinking of going the warrant route. Luckily I had people around me with 20+ years in, who gave some good advice. I'm sure everything will work out. Good Luck!

[Gambit]

Don't forget two things... one for Ckim, and one for Sammy:

Ckim: Your assessment is not always what you end up doing. SO: when you get it, if you passionately want something else, figure out how to get it... part of being a leader sometimes is finding creative ways to take the objective. ;)

Sammy: Interestingly enough, some of the people I know with 20+ years in are CWOs, having rolled over from O-4/O-5 after stalling in their career path for whatever reason (ran in with a bad boss, what have you... not necessarily shitbag soldiers is my point). Has nothing to do with this conversation, just thought would share.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Sammy: Interestingly enough, some of the people I know with 20+ years in are CWOs, having rolled over from O-4/O-5 after stalling in their career path for whatever reason (ran in with a bad boss, what have you... not necessarily shitbag soldiers is my point). Has nothing to do with this conversation, just thought would share.

I personally know an O-4 who got out of the Active Army and joined a guard unit as a CW2 or 3. Less pay of course, but he was doing it primarily for the flying time. Eventually he got out all together. Unfortunately when our Army is deployed this much, NG aviation units often become spare parts stores for the rest of the Army, which kind of limits the amount of hours you'll get.

[Ezmartini]

Most of the MSIV's at my school got their first choice. All except for the guy that everyone calls "Farva" (I know there are Super Troopers fans here). This guy hated the Army when he came into the program as a II, he brought his guitar to class, etc.

Don't be like Farva and you'll get what you want.

Matt

[infantry11b]

I followed someone's link to this board, and I know I'm new here but this is my advice. By the way, I am/was (until this semester) an MS-IV, prior service Infantry. I wasn't branched because I was going to be a completion cadet, so anyone who wants to say I'm just bitter about accessions or my branch can think again.

You'll hear most people say to stick with ROTC but I'm going to throw out a different opinion. I took a 4 year scholarship and from what I've noticed, ROTC does a good job of hiding all the BS you have to put up with until after you contract and can't get out. I also like how when they want to force you to do something, you are then a "contracted" cadet however when they don't want to pay you an amount consistent with all the other "contracted" military personnel (i.e. NALC) or they don't want you to be able to throw a smoke grenade or shoot blanks from an M-249 that you battlefield pick up from the OPFOR then you are just a lowly, worthless cadet. That's what happened to me. Now, don't get me wrong, I know very well much of the Army is about how much bull$hit you can put up with and ROTC isn't any different, just make sure you look at all your options.

My MS-II year, I went into my PMS's office and told him that I think I would be better off back enlisted (11B) and that I was considering becoming a warrant officer (aviator). To make a very long story short, I also told him the same thing my MS-III year before I went to NALC and CTLT and he blew me off a second time, telling me that I was crazy and that I shouldn't want to be anything but a 2LT. I went to Ft. Lewis (it was a joke) and then went to CTLT (aviation OH-58D's) where I received an excellent OER. However, it was there that I truly realized that while I was completely capable of being a commissioned officer, I envied those WO's who were flying all the time.

I went back to my PMS and had to argue with him to disenroll me. Personally, I'm still going to finish school and probably put in a WOFT packet almost immediately after I graduate. If I decide later that I want to commission, I'll go thru OCS.
Yes, I breached a federal contract and yes, I'm paying back $18,000 of scholarship money, but honestly it was the right decision for me. If I commissioned and wasn't happy and didn't care about what I was doing, then I wouldn't have been doing anybody a favor.
My cadre basically told me that I'd be completely unsuccessful and miserable as an enlisted soldier. Their attitude and the attitude of many officers I've met is that enlisted soldiers are a lower form of life and only people who are afraid of responsibility and leading enlist. I'd have to disagree. While I might make half of what an officer makes, money is only one factor and I have a hard time believing that people who choose to enlist and become infantrymen are doing it for the money anyway. (I know I didn't) Whatever you decide, do what makes you happy and I wish you the best of luck.

infantry11b
"I am the Infantry, FOLLOW ME!"

[Gambit]

Interesting perspective, infantry11b, and a good one. You were/are, in my opinion, very right to do what you did if your goal was to follow your dreams... in most circumstances, officers are not the ones actually "doing" things, whether it's driving a tank or firing a weapon, or whatever. The O's take the plan the charges, take the blame, do the paperwork. The same thing happens in the civilian world... the best performers are turned into management, where they don't perform anymore. The Army is just a different approach... they prefer to train managers from the get-go, as opposed to pulling them from the performers on a regular basis.

I'll take slight issue, however, with your last paragraph above. While I will not criticize your viewpoint, I will say that I think you have your viewpoint because of a lack of understanding... you started out by enlisting, therefore that is your background. The interesting thing is, your comments are true for the same reason... many officers have never been enlisted. Does that mean that the military should work towards the civilian ethic of pulling leaders from the troops entirely? No, I think that there are huge benefits to training someone to do exactly what they will end up doing... especially in the military culture, where a troop is trained to follow instructions regardless... the ultimate cliche, but if some officer says "run that machine gun nest", somebody's got to do it without hesitation. Officers are trained to think before they do that, at least to some extent. This is evident in many prior service men/women who come through ROTC... I've seen plenty of cadets with prior service that have trouble leading, because they're so well trained to do what they're told.

To get back to my point, though, I think what you're seeing is not a lack of caring on the part of any officers per se, but more a lack of understanding that is brought on from the military culture of separating the enlisted and officers as if the others have the plague. Realize that the lifestyles are indeed very different, in addition to the training. For the most part the forced differences do their job, although there are areas like this when the touchpoints chafe instead of smooth relations. I'm not offering a solution, just saying that you probably aren't seeing the whole situation (speaking from someone who hasn't seen the whole situation, so take it with a grain of salt).

Again, I commend you for working hard to make sure that you're doing what you want. Cadre have a reason to exist, and it's to turn people into something different than you wanted to be. Your prior service allowed you to better see what you wanted to do, but don't think too badly of them for trying to help you be what they thought you were there to turn into.

[roger29]

Alright dude, this is the big point, you should be in ROTC because you want to commission and serve the Army, not to do a specific job. At this point, I don't think you'll be a very good officer with a lack in desire like you have. Infantry is tough to get, you better be damn good at what you do, from what I am reading, you aren't too good at it...

[Sammy Sandbag]

Roger, who exactly is your post refering to? Saying "I don't think you'll be a very good officer with a lack in desire like you have" isn't helping anyone.

[Gambit]

I believe that we submitted our posts at the same time, and mine just got in first... so both of ours refer to infantry11b's post.

Agree with you that roger's post isn't very constructive, interesting esp. since he has been a voice of reason in the past.

[infantry11b]

Alright dude, this is the big point, you should be in ROTC because you want to commission and serve the Army, not to do a specific job. At this point, I don't think you'll be a very good officer with a lack in desire like you have. Infantry is tough to get, you better be damn good at what you do, from what I am reading, you aren't too good at it...

I'll agree that anyone, officer or enlisted, who is in the Army should be there because they want to serve. However, I don't think anyone can argue that people do a better job at what they enjoy doing. That's why they try to get you one of your top 3 branch choices and also why you can pick your MOS if you enlist.

If you really liked tanks and armor, but commissioned and had to supervise soldiers who only shovel $hit, how good of a job would you really do? Likewise if you really liked shoveling $hit, how well would you perform as an armor officer. Sure, either may get the job done, but the guy who loves what he does will do it without hesitation and almost always exceed the standard.

infantry11b
"I am the Infantry, FOLLOW ME!"

[roger29]

Hey guys, sorry about that last post, my school gives us all laptops and I often leave my up in our "Ranger Room", another cadet must have posted that last comment, not me. I was reading through the thread and started getting yelled at by our S-3 NCO because I am not really the batt CSM, just his personal biotch. Lol, j/k.

In all seriousness, I hear what you're saying about wanting a branch and wanting to enlist. Personally, I would be turned on by what enlisted get to do over what officers get to do. But, remember that no matter what branch you receive dude, you will still be an officer. You might hate your job, but our number one goal is to take care of soldiers...ordance or infantry, you'll be doing just that.

Don't take the easy way out, fight hard and do your best. If you don't get infantry next fall, drive on anyway, and hope for combat arms. Enlisting would be easy, fast, and you would know what you were going to do, but, wouldn't you rather live a life of goals and accomplishment rather than taking the easy way out?

[roger29]

Just to clarify, when I started getting yelled at, I had to leave the room and talk to him in his office...I didn't make that too clear.

[MoJo]

And I don't know where you heard about RIP staight out of AIT, unless things have changed in the past couple years, that's near impossible.

Starting the '04 Fiscal year, there will be 150 Option 40 enlistment contracts available nationally per month. The Option 40 (Ranger) enlistment contract guarantees you a pipeline of OSUT (Benning,) AIT, Airborne, and then RIP. This also includes a $3000 sign up bonus on top of any other bonuses you may be eligible.

If you make it through this pipeline, after a year or so in Regiment you can be expected to be sent to Ranger School.

If you want to make it into a Ranger Regiment, or maybe even "Delta Force," I'm sorry but your odds are MUCH higher going with either the Option 40, or the 18X enlistment programs, simply b/c officer slots in Regiment are extremely rare.

Also as an officer, unless you make it into SF or Delta, you're not going to have the opportunity to attend some of the more elite schools (Sniper/Scuba/HALO.) So it comes down to, if you want to be a soldier and a shooter, enlist. If you want to be a LEADER, then get a commission.

Also, here are the stats of ROTC branching:

There were 317 Infantry slots for ROTC this year. There are 4681 ROTC seniors assessing this year. As you can see, Infantry isn't exactly an easy branch to get. You'd better be squared away.

[roger29]

Hey MOJO, not to step on your example of slots and commissionies... Yes 317 slots were given out for Infantry and 4681 cadets were being assessed...BUT, out of that 4681 there were only about 1700 active duty slots, which is what that 317 comes from (doesn't include guard or reserve components). So now you are only talking 317 out of 1700...now, minus all the females...odds are getting better...now minus all the branch details, cause that isn't figured in either and your odds are significantly reduced.

[MoJo]

Actually 3414 MSIVs have been Active Duty branched...

As far as Branch Detail...the EXACT OPPOSITE. Not only are there ZERO Infantry Branch details for '04, but TWO MSIVs who have the IN Control Branch have Branch Detailed to Finance.

You do have a point with the females...but still, 317 slots is NOT a lot.

[roger29]

Negative, that number is way off on the active duty slots, where are you getting your number from?

And, I would check that whole branch detail idea, I have heard differently.

[MoJo]

Negative, that number is way off on the active duty slots, where are you getting your number from?

And, I would check that whole branch detail idea, I have heard differently.

Directly from Cadet Command. My numbers were current as of about 1 month ago. I have on me a list of names of EVERY MSIV in this country, their branch, etc etc...all you got to do is call Cadet Command and ask :) Seriously...

[MoJo]

Give me a name of any MSIV you know, I can tell you his duty branch, control branch, school, even national ranking.

[roger29]

I think we are missing eachothers point somewhere along the line. Did you go down the list of 5000 and add up all the branches?

Can you post the exact number of commissioning cadets? Active slots? Reserve, Guard? Each branch number? Branch detail? Ed delay? Am I missing anything?

Not trying to be an ass here dude, I just am a little skeptical about some of the numbers.

[MoJo]

Can you post the exact number of commissioning cadets? Active slots? Reserve, Guard? Each branch number? Branch detail? Ed delay? Am I missing anything?

Yes I can. I called Cadet Command, and asked them to send me a detailed listing and statistical sheet of ALL branching results with all pertinent information. I wanted this information to help me decide whether I wanted to go to USMA or not, and also because I was extremely skeptical of what my ROTC cadre/peer were telling me: "You'll get any branch you want." Here are some more tallies:

291 Active Duty Armor slots for ROTC
149 Active Duty Aviation slots for ROTC
62 Guard/Reserve Infantry slots for ROTC

[roger29]

Ok, MoJo, so you are telling me that you are still in H.S. and preaching to me about accessions?

No offense dude, I am no LTG or a know it all, but alot of what you are telling me is contrary to what I have been shown, on paper, by our PMS.

In regard to your comment about getting the branch you would like, well, lately that has been the trend. My school received 12 out of 12 first choices. Others schools have done equally as well.

Logically speaking, there are roughly, and this is rough, 6 IOBC classes a year. Each class has a company of about 250 2lts. Are you telling me that only about 400 of them have come from ROTC either active/res? Damn, everyone at WP must be branching infantry.

From my understanding, yes you are correct in that 300 number of infantry slots, but, that is stricktly active components, not including branch details.

(I won't get started on the WP vs ROTC talk :) God help us and the stereotypical WP cadet ;) )

[MoJo]

Ok, MoJo, so you are telling me that you are still in H.S. and preaching to me about accessions?

No offense dude, I am no LTG or a know it all, but alot of what you are telling me is contrary to what I have been shown, on paper, by our PMS.

Logically speaking, there are roughly, and this is rough, 6 IOBC classes a year. Each class has a company of about 250 2lts. Are you telling me that only about 400 of them have come from ROTC either active/res? Damn, everyone at WP must be branching infantry.

From my understanding, yes you are correct in that 300 number of infantry slots, but, that is stricktly active components, not including branch details.



I'm not in High School. I completed 2 1/2 years of ROTC, attending the Mountain Warfare School, and Airborne School. I chose to disenroll from ROTC to attend USMA.

Again, I have on paper straight from Cadet Command, the number of Branch Details, and that number is NEGATIVE 2 as previously posted.

Last year USMA got 207 Infantry slots.

I don't have any statistics on IOBC classes, but 6 classes of 250 students a piece sounds really really high...

[Trigga Time]

So, to ask an obvious question every CDT wants to know, what whould be the % of CDTs who get Infantry or Aviation who apply? What is the amount who apply for what Branch and those who did get thier branch what was thier OML? This type of info would help in generating my branch choices. I was thinking doing Infantry 1st and Avaition 2nd. However I would put Aviation 1st if I found out It was easier to get than Infantry and the chance of me getting infantry was slim. I hear Aviations only one of the hardest because of the exam and test and that if you meet those requirements its not that hard. Does anyone anyone have info about this? :twisted: <--- my war face

[Sammy Sandbag]

Knowing the percentages and OML scores isn't really going to help you at all, it's been discussed at length already. However, if you list Infantry at anything else but 1, you won't get it. On the same token, if you list Aviation at anything else but 1, you won't get it. List which one you want the most, then go from there. There's no strategy to placing your branch choices. The best you can do is list them in the order that you want them, and hope it turns out. The needs of the Army and constantly changing branching methods will determine your branch not trying to play the system. Aviation and Infantry are difficult branches to get for the same reasons; more applicants than slots. Aviation has far less slots, but a good AFAST score will help you, along with good GPA, PT, camp, etc. Anything but passing or exceeding minimums on the flight physical will keep you out.

[LowinNur]

more money/treatment/career builder as officer. If your doing a career in army then go 11B , if not I think your wasting your time.

[Holt]

If your doing a career in army then go 11B , if not I think your wasting your time.

What do you mean by that?

[MoJo]

I think he meant if you're doing a career in the Army, then try to branch infantry.

Excvept he doesn't understand that officers can't hold an 11B MOS...

[Sammy Sandbag]

He probably also doesn't understand that no one can know if they want a career in the Army at that age. I still don't know if I want to make a career out of the Army. If someone tells you otherwise, they are just saying what sounds good. Honestly, choose your branch according to what interests you the most. If you want to fly, go aviation. If you like computers, go signal. If you like getting fat and lazy, go armor (jab.) So basically, don't think of what is going to make a better career branch, because you can be a career officer in any branch. What LowinNur is saying only applies if you're gunning for Chief of Staff of the Army.

[Associate289]

agreed.... i dont believe any of us here have experienced enough of the army to know whether or not we want to spend the next 20 something years with it.... and you shouldnt pick a branch solely because you feel you'd have a better chance of making a career out of it... no sense in doing something you hate

[Sammy Sandbag]

Like I said, you can make a career out of any branch. But not to bust anyone's bubble, but Infantry isn't exactly the best branch for making rank and hence the best for making "a career out of the Army." Chemical Corps is one of the best branches around for officer retention and promotion rates, but you hardly ever hear that.

[neo]

I say branch civilian.... j/k.

If dude is an MS II he shouldn't worry about anything. Who knows what will happen in the next two years. Lord knows I went from mr squared away heading for a shining career to mr bum knee who was the shit of the earth in the eyes of my PMS.

Dont worry about your branch. At then end of the day be happy with your Gold Bar, you college degree, and the opportunity to serve your country. Lord knows I wish I was given the chance!

[MoJo]

What happened to your knee?

[Sammy Sandbag]

It couldn't support his weight any longer. Snapped like a tooth pick. I keeed. I too am a member of the bum knee club, and it does indeed suck. Kept me out of Airborne, but luckily not from comissioning. It'll just be that much more of an incentive not to crash. I sure as hell don't want to E&E for 50 clicks back to safety.

[AirborneAli]

Good luck at SERE school Sammy :-)

[SWATJester]

actually, my battalion senior NCO was very level headed about it. He gave me a good idea of both NCO and Officer life..and for our ROTC, every MS4 EXCEPT 1 didn't get their first choice..

Well sounds like you need to transfer schools more than dropping out of ROTC. As for your SNCO, I'd say he's one of the few. We've had this discussion with ZaQ before, but of course he's still in high school, I'd expect it out of him. Anyways, I assume you are already well on your way to earning a degree. It wouldn't make much sense to not use it. Going the officer path will also set you up for a better job in the civilian world. Yes, even if you spend 20 years in, you will still need a civilian job when you get out. As a IN 2LT you'll automatically go to airborne (if you haven't already) and Ranger School right after you finish IOBC. You'll have to put in several years in as an E before you'll even see Ranger School.

Close. as enlisted, out of infantry AIT, IF you were lucky enough to get guarenteed airborne, you automatically get a chance to go to RIP, assuming you pass the ranger physical. But, that comes at the end of airborne school.

[SWATJester]

Like I said, you can make a career out of any branch. But not to bust anyone's bubble, but Infantry isn't exactly the best branch for making rank and hence the best for making "a career out of the Army." Chemical Corps is one of the best branches around for officer retention and promotion rates, but you hardly ever hear that.

Armor has great promotion rates too.