West Point Forum

[Sammy Sandbag]

This is a call to any and all West Pointers. I know there's quite a few of you out there that view the forums on a regular basis, so quit being shy and just register. Anyways, I'd like to set up a USMA group and hidden forum on the site. If there is any interest in this, please reply to this topic, Private Message, or email me.

[cornbread]

i'll get in on that, i've ghosted for a while, might as well be a little more active.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Check your private message box.

[bill]

There are times when I hate this place, and times when I love it. I'm not going to bitch about coming here because it was my decision, and suprisingly I ended up liking it. A lot of bastards here just sit and complain about how much their lives suck, and they need to realize that it's not going to get any better. Hopefully they'll read this and maybe think about putting an end to their bitching. Yet, I will admit that there is a lot of playschool bullshit that goes on here, that hopefull I will have to deal with a lot less in the Army. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

[BitterYuk]

the bitching is the worst. I hate people who complain about being somewhere voluntarily. makes no sense.

[I274]

'got this from a friend about 10 days ago. I wish I thought of this way back when...

Here is an overview of a recent (27 April) retreat review at Annapolis as reported by a USNA grad:

"Today we were treated to the most entertaining parade I have seen at the Naval Academy. Seated around me were alumni from the 50's and 70's, and they agree it will become legendary.

The setting was perfect: blue skies, a nice breeze, the cherry trees around Hospital Point in full bloom, the sailboats with their blue and gold spinnakers in the background. The Brigade began to march onto Worden Field. All looked normal at first, but then we noticed one of the mids in the Second Regiment (who runs ahead to guide the company to its place) was confused and moved here and there before finding the spot. Soon the companies were coming into their slots on a slanted path. It became apparent that there would not be room for them all on the field. One company (14, I think) squeezed into a small spot that was meant for the Color Guard. 30th Company arrived with no room left on the end, so they continued on to a gap and came to rest between the 21st and 22nd Companies. The 15th Company, finding no room at all, gave up and marched back to Bancroft Hall! The Color Guard, left with no way through the brigade, squeezed through single file, then spread out to present the Colors. After the National Anthem, they returned smartly, furled the Colors, and squeezed back.

What happened? Since there are 22 days until Herndon (USNA recognition), the 22nd Company plebes had moved/painted over the markers on the field indicating the placement of the companies! The consensus in our viewing area was it was the best show since the Class of '52 all left their shoes on the field and marched off in their socks."

[Aries]

fucking squids.

my plebe year the yucks and some of the other plebes in my company drew G2 on Washington Statue. probably can still see it when it rains.

[I274]

check out http://www.skyviewpictures.com and clik on the link to pics - other pics, and you find a collection of aerial pics of school.
there is one nice one with the corps on the P-rade field

[Aries]

man.. that one with Lusk frozen over brings back some really dreary days of gloom

[I274]

this came across my desk yesterday...

Class of 2009 Beanhead pics - Beast Barracks


http://www.usma.edu/Class/2009/CBT/CBT05.htm

[Cerebroden]

TaHHHHHHHHHHh look at my boy Ochockey fuckin chill modin it (140), I knew I hazed that kid enough where this ain't gon be shit.

side note...all those fuckers look like the belong in an after school program not a college, or am I just getting old

[Aries]

haha.. classroom time.. fun

[Cerebroden]

think I might have saw him in a couple other pics, one where he's helpin someone get over a wall and one other, but I couldn't tell

[I274]

The following information has been forwarded to us by the USMA Public Affairs Office.

A film about the 2004 Army Football team seniors, titled “The Seeds of Victory,” will premiere on ESPN Classic on Saturday, Nov. 5 at 2:30 p.m. (EST) prior to the Army-Air Force game scheduled to air at 3:30 p.m. (EST). It will also air on ESPN2 on Fri., Nov. 4 at 6 a.m. and will have multiple re-airs on ESPNU (times to be announced) during the month of December.

Bombo Sports and Entertainment, a production company that specializes in sports documentaries, produced the film during the 2004-2005 academic year, ending with the graduation and commissioning of the Class of 2005, nicknamed by many as the class of 9/11. The film is not a sports highlight film, but rather a story about these cadets, their lives at the Academy and their reasons for coming to West Point and being part of a wartime Army upon graduation. They discuss their ambitions as future officers, their relationships with each other and the camaraderie they had as a team.

The film is also the only American title in the finals of an international film festival in Milan, "Sport Movies & TV" and is organized by Fédération Internationale Cinéma Télévision Sportifs, an association with 94 member countries - recognized by the International Olympic Committee.

One component of the judging is the results of an Internet vote. Voting takes place at http://www.sportmoviestv.com.

BEAT AIR FORCE!

[Un4given]

this came across my desk yesterday...

Class of 2009 Beanhead pics - Beast Barracks


http://www.usma.edu/Class/2009/CBT/CBT05.htm
Cadet basic training?

I <3 ROTC.


Anywho, picture 106... Aries, you know who said she had a little sis going in as a freshman this year... You think that's her?

[Aries]

i havent seen paige in years. but thats not her.

[I274]

This recently came across the desk...

Summer training at WooPoo U is changing.



http://www.pointerview.com/summertraining.htm

[airjun]

i second that on rotc

[Aries]

ok. as long as those fuckers have to march bull hill thats all I care about. and that sucks that the yucks dont all get to do knox anymore

[Skull6]

USAFA's already "recognized" their dinks. My thought is that instead of USAFA, it be changed to "High altitude academy for wimps"--or HAAW for short.

[I274]

FYI

Dear Class Leaders,

Understanding that there's been some consternation over the Superintendent's decision to mandate the locking of doors in the cadet barracks at night, I am passing on to you a message that LTG (R) Joe DeFrancisco sent to his classmates. It's pasted in beneath my signature.

Sincerely,
John Calabro '68


I spent some time with the Superintendent this morning. Given the plethora of messages regarding "locked rooms" I asked him about the issue. LTG Lennox explained that the policy to lock cadet room doors grew out of a recommendation by the special "Task Force on Sexual Assaults at the Academies" (that is all academies, not just USMA). By regulation, cadet room doors now must be locked between the hours of midnight and 0520.

Previously, cadets had the authority to lock their doors during those hours at their own discretion. Few took that option for fear of conveying a notion that they mistrusted other cadets. However, because isolated assaults continued USMA decided to mandate locked doors in order to protect all without singling out the few who were reluctant to be
identified as mistrusting other cadets.

The Supe estimates there are four or five unsavory cadets who are/were entering rooms without authorization. The Academy continues its attempts to identify and discipline those cadets. Last year the Superintendent court martialed and expelled two such transgressors.

The locked door policy has nothing to do with lying, cheating or stealing. It's about safeguarding the rights and reputations of the vast majority of cadets from the actions of a very few bad actors.

(My comment, not the Supe's: a "yellow press" headline in a local newspaper put the wrong spin on the story by linking the locked doors to the honor code).

Joe DeFrancisco

[Aries]

yeah. we forced our female plebes to lock their doors when I was there. I have definitely had to run to a friends room in the middle of the night to get one of my drunk classmates out of her roommates bed before. they may be at west point, but they are still 22 year olds with raging hormones.

[I274]

this just out from Military Review

Getting West Point Back on Mission

In 2005, as the new academic year began at the United States Military Academy (USMA) at West Point, New York, Superintendent Lieutenant General Bill Lennox announced an updated mission statement. The new statement deletes the phrase “a lifetime of selfless service to the Nationâ€

[Jake the Skillet]

I knida understand what he is saying, but having a desire to spend a career in the Army at 18 years old doesn't make your potential to be a good leader or to positivley make a difference any higher than someone who does want to serve and isn't sure if a career is what they want.

Just my take, for what it's worth

[Associate289]

You're forcing a 17/18 year old kid to decide what he wants to do with his whole life before he even sets foot into college. Right. Methinks the COE and $$$ are more of a cause of officers leaving the army early than a line from a mission statement.

[Skull6]

P.S. From one who's walked both sides of the track--in more ways than one (USAF to Army, military to civilian)...

A freakin change in the wording will NOT fix this problem. In fact, it'll fix USMA's retention problem just as much or less than that damned beret "fixed" the Army's morale & esteem problem.

It's a bigger problem, but one who very few have the cajones to address: retention of the Army across the board. Even folks who were gung-ho to become CoS of the USA after graduation are getting a bit worn down after their 4th deployment in recent years.

How to fix it? I'd start by suggesting 2 things (my own opinions):

1) STOP over-extending our military forces. They do a damn good job at what they do, but can only do it so long & need at least a minimum amount of trained-&-ready warm bodies to accomplish certain tasks--nation building being one of them.

2) Get the politicians more personally involved. I don't as mean more armchair generals--I mean in doing what we pay them to do--WORK THE POLITICAL PROCESS. & not just within our boundaries, but also in those areas where we find ourselves nation-building. As of now, I see them relying SOOOO freaking TOO much on the service members' compassion & dedication. I know for a fact that Soldiers will go the extra mile to fix something, if it means they don't have to come back & "fix it again" any time soon. But who knows more how to help places like Iraq fill their political void--our Soldiers or our POLITICIANS.

As to the verbiage change of the USMA mission...hey, what can I say. My alma mater's changed their's too. & for exactly the wrong reasons as well. IMO.

[I274]

Really good thoughts by all.

But for a free education at one of the most prestigious institutions of the world, shouldn't we be up front and say what this is all about? (this is coming from someone who feels the 5-year commitment is way too short. The taxpayers provide a $300,000+ premier education and all they get is the same commitment expected from a ROTC grad?)

Let me say here that I have always respected the ROTC guys (and gals) - you show true allegiance to your cause - doing military stuff at a civilian institution, and a lot of it on your own party time (weekends, etc). (and as far as you crazy people from VMI, Citadel, etc who PAY to suck, my hat is off to you.)

[Associate289]

I understand where you're coming from, but why are we concerning ourselves with "Is it fiscally responsible to have West Point?". The Army isn't a business. If they want to change the problem, treat the virus and not the symptoms. Do they honestly expect this new mission statement to make a great impact on retention? Please.

Do I know what the solution is? No, I don't. If they want to make this change to reflect a transition in mindset, ok. But don't sit there and say it's a solution to the problem, because you can wait 10 years and it'll still be there.

[I274]

But don't sit there and say it's a solution to the problem, because you can wait 10 years and it'll still be there.

You're right. . . it is not a solution to the problem. It will continue.

But I just think we need to up front with the challenge and demand more.
.
.
.

I know there are some woopsters out there... what is the impact of changing the commitment for grads?

[Associate289]

Very true.

What do you want to change the commitment to, 10 years? 15 years?

Looking at it from a younger generations perspective, telling a 17 year old kid that if he goes to WP that he'll be 37 before his commitment is up, that's gonna hurt recruitment pretty bad.

[Aries]

here is what I used to tell parents and candidates.

West Point is not a stepping stone. If and when you graduate from that institution your goal should be to be a career officer in the United States Army. You shouldnt be thinking as soon as you graduate what type of 6 figure job you could be getting.

that shit pissed me off, the people that didnt want to be there. and yeah, i left but I loved that place till I drove out of Thayer, and I still do. If they change the commitment what will happen? West Points applications will drop. they will still admit 1000 people a year, but its gonna narrow out the slugs and the pieces of shit that dont want an army career, that are their just to get that 6-figure. shit, USMA needs to stop recruiting kids to win football games, to make themselves look good. they need to go out and find the kids that want to be there. My plebe year roommates and I convinced a few kids not to come to west point after they showed the lack of care for the military. to many kids wanting to go for mommy and daddy.

[Associate289]

shit, USMA needs to stop recruiting kids to win football games

And clearly we aren't doing well in that aspect either.

[Jake the Skillet]

but its gonna narrow out the slugs and the pieces of shit that dont want an army career, that are their just to get that 6-figure.

Do you really think so??

I am pretty willing to bet that the amount of career officers in the Army when they started out didn't think that they were going to stay in for their career. I am also willing to bet that a vast majority of those that said and feel that they want to stay in for a career (when they just get in, let alone when they are 18-19 years old), don't.

I think that it'll do the opposite of your statement. You are narrowing the playing field, including the "potential" of the ones that aren't sure that a 20 year career is for them.

I know all of you have met someone that said that they definatley wanted to "stay in all 20..." Those people are usually the goobers and the shitbags that don't know they are....(there are always exceptions)

[Sassy05]

I agree with Aries. I'd say I can remotely relate to USMA cadets/graduates because I had a similar college experience, but I paid for it, and I was not forced into the Army. However, what struck me the hardest during OBC when I met a lot of the Wes Point cadets was that they HATE West Point. The vast majority say that if they had it to do over, they wouldn't have gone there. Granted, most of these guys were the recruited athletes that Aries mentioned, so they went there with a different agenda. Not only do they despise USMA, they also claim they are doing "five and fly." Now I hope that changes because in all honesty, most of them are going to make good officers. West Point well-equips their cadets, but I know there are some that slip through the cracks. Perhaps it is because VMI is more voluntary than West Point (unless you are ROTC scholarship) and commissioning is not mandatory, but I can only name two people that left the Institute hating it. Most people admit in the end that they were glad they went. Perhaps my peers from USMA will discover that later on.

[Aries]

FA - Football Alumni. most of the football players branched FA, it was good seeing the ones that wanted to do things for the right reasons. Actually saw some turn around their senior year when it all became real.

West Point is not Bird Shit State. It is one of the nations oldest and most premier institutions. Its purpose is to develop leaders for the US Army.

yeah, its going to narrow the field, and some people are going to wonder if they want a career and decide against going, but at the same time the people that really dont want a career are gonna stay away from it. If i could do it all over wanna know what I would do? I wouldve gone and kept my mouth shut a couple of times. the Academy is not your normal institution, I strongly believe they need to be held to a HIGHER standard.

[Skull6]

Aries, you shoulda attended a military academy where you felt the daily need to rail against the other 90% who felt that they were indeed still going to a civilian university--it's just that they were forced to wear a uniform & march to lunch.

USMA was my first choice. Uncle Sam made that decision for me, though.

P.S. I got him back in the end, though! Walked across that stage with that ARMOR branch insignia already on the collar of my parades!

BwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHA!

::turret::

P.P.S. USAFA already has a 10 year committment for those going to UPT after graduation. Wonder why they're trying to ramrod pilots into staying in or cadets into going into UPT anymore?

Psst. IMO, it's a total "LACK OF COMMITTMENT!"

[Aries]

plebe year we called USAFA "Air Force State University"

do they still let the firsties live out of the barracks.

[Skull6]

I think they have in the past, but I wouldn't be surprised if that, & many other "nonsensical options" disappear soon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but firsties are supposed to be the top of the cadet chain of command. Therefore (& this is how it was way back when when I was there), they are the pinnacle of "examples of leadership by example" & need to be present to remain so--both on & off-duty.

That's not to say that they can't go off on weekends & blow off steam or whatnot. That in itself is a good example, imo.

OK. Here it is--straight from the horse's mouth. I don't know about USMA, but when I was at USAFA, there were FAR too many "individuals" worrying about themselves, as opposed to remaining somewhat concerned as to their subordinates' as well. Hell, we had "study hall," where the uppers would tutor/ mentor the lower classes in my squadron. But we were also referred to as "Nazis" for doing things like this.

[Skull6]

http://www.westpointgradsagainstthewar.org/

(The ultimate irony is that I found this on a USAFA grad-only site!)

Even if I could find a few of my classmates who thought the same way I do, & even if I felt that this war was wrong, I certainly wouldn't use the name of my alma mater to support my cause.

Aside from their 1st ammendment rights, I see the use of the institution name as disrespectful, imo.

Your thoughts?

[Aries]

I think I am going to be sick.

[Skull6]

I'd say I'm concerned that something similar will happen with some USAFA grads, but we tend not to congregate like this once we've graduated. I call it the "flying knight" mentality.

I & many others are working on changing this, so that one day we might have a "long blue line," but I'm not holding my breath that it'll happen during this lifetime...

[Aries]

OK. I read that again, all the people that posted comments were all civilians or other services. I did not see one USMA comment on there other than those three old grads. once again, I think I am going to be sick.

[I274]

There are always a few queers and commies who get thru the system.

there are only three of them.

blanket party.

And since this morning when I sent this to friends, I’ve heard that the AOG has notified them that they have to take off all official marks from their site. The AOG does not support anyone using the academy crest and such for anything that is not what they support.

[Aries]

there are no USMA marks on that site thank God. I am all for voicing your opinion, but dont use the name of west point to further your goals. they can be Vets for Peace and in their bios say they graduated, but titling their organization that? fuck that shit

[Skull6]

I274 et al,

I guess there's going to be a legal battle over this.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-A ... uates.html (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Anti-War-Graduates.html)

Looks like there's only 3. Website title leads me to believe that there'd be many more.

Maybe it's just me...

[Aries]

hmm..

Alma Mater-
"When we depart from thee, serving on land or sea, may we still loyal be, West Point to thee."

The Corps - (you could say its THE song held in highest regard)
"The corps bareheaded salute it, with eyes up thanking our God, that we of the corps are treading, where they of the corps have trod."

and MacArthurs Address
"The Long Gray Line has never failed us. Were you to do so, a million ghosts in olive drab, in brown khaki, in blue and gray, would rise from their white crosses thundering those magic words: Duty, Honor, Country."

When these guys cross the river, they are going to be haunted by the words "Duty, Honor, Country"

I hope the Wojcik listed there is no relation to the kid I went to USMA with.

[I274]

Another class has entered the long gray line.

http://www.usma.edu/Class/2010/R-Day/

.

[Associate289]

Look at the fro on number 64. That shit must have clogged the clippers.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Another class has entered the long gray line.

http://www.usma.edu/Class/2010/R-Day/

.

Dear God I could come up with sooooo many funny comments for these photos...

[Un4given]

Fuckin' kids... Then they'll come into the Army thinking they're God. Psssh. lol

I know 1 USMA transporter and he's cool as fuck. *shrugs*

[Skull6]

Pic 105...

Either USMA has hired Oompaloompahs for inprocessing staff, or she's got another basketball player on their hands.

P.S. It ain't just happening on the Hudson...

http://www.usafa.af.mil/cadetFocus/cadetPhotos/2010/

[Skull6]

Does Benny Havens still stand? I wanted to visit the site when last I was at West Point, but my time there was too short.

[Aries]

unless it got shut down for serving underage kids, along with fireside, and the dumb bartender at southgate who told me "happy birthday" in july.. (my birthday is in April) when I was only 20 years old. its not an honor violation if you dont lie.

[I274]

It's half time and I think we've set a record of the worst first half EVER!

This even beats the 77-7 slaughter by Nebraska ... (we suck so bad)....

[Aries]

i thought the 43-0 was the final score. thank God the Air Force had mercy and put in their prep school in the second half.

[Cerebroden]

worst first half? I thought the first quarter was mildly respectable....its the second quarter where it turned into a fuckin comedy act.

[Skull6]

I blame it on the altitude difference of their practice fields. Or the fly-over (y'all got more in one pass than the zoomies have seen all year, IIRC). Or the internet.

Or the french. Yeah, I blame it on the french... ::ooops::

[I274]

I never knew there were so many verses of Benny Havens. The link below has a good history of the place.

from my old company, I-2 (which no longer exists).
scroll below the class of '57 to read about Benny Havens.
(and no, that’s not me in the class of ’57)

----Original Message Follows----

I will miss all of you going to the game Saturday. I thought you would appreciate this I-2 memorabilia from an earlier Class.

Beat Navy!

_http://www.usma57.org/Headlines/BennyHavens.htm_
(http://www.usma57.org/Headlines/BennyHavens.htm)

[I274]

W.P just took the assistant coach and made him the head coach, instead of finding someone new.

Oregon Native Stan Brock to Lead Army Football
January 30, 2007 7:28


WEST POINT, N.Y. - When Bobby Ross informed officials at the United States Military Academy of his decision to retire from coaching, Academy leadership wasted little time identifying the veteran field boss' successor.

On the same day in which Ross officially announced that he was leaving the coaching sidelines, United States Military Academy Superintendent Lt. Gen. Franklin L. Hagenbeck and Director of Athletics Kevin Anderson introduced Stan Brock as the Black Knights' new head football coach.

Brock, who served as an assistant on Ross' staff each of the past three years, was named the 35th head coach in the history of the intercollegiate football program at West Point during a press conference at Randall Hall Auditorium Monday afternoon.

"West Point is fortunate to have a proven leader with coach Brock's record of success," said Hagenbeck. "Stan's name immediately rose to the top when we began discussing the process with coach Ross to identify a future successor. The continuity and stability he provides the program is critical. He's earned the respect of the players, coaches and administration as a tough, principled visionary."

A member of Ross' original staff at the Academy, Brock has guided Army's offensive linemen each of the past three years and carries the experience of 16 years as a standout lineman in the National Football League.

Brock played 13 seasons with the NFL's New Orleans Saints (1980-92) as an offensive tackle after he was selected in the first round of the 1980 NFL Draft as the 12th overall selection. He was an All-Rookie choice in 1980 and went on to play in 186 games for New Orleans (No. 4 all-time in Saints history). Brock was inducted into the Saints' Hall of Fame in 1998.

After becoming an unrestricted free agent in 1993, Brock closed out his playing career with three seasons as the co-captain of the Chargers (1993-95) under Ross. The highlight of his 234-game NFL career occurred during the 1994 season, when the Chargers won the AFC championship with a 17-13 upset victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers, lifting San Diego into Super Bowl XXIX versus the San Francisco 49ers.

Brock, 48, was a four-year letterman at the University of Colorado, serving as team captain during his senior season.

Brock will begin his new duties at Army immediately. He expects to finalize his initial Black Knight coaching staff in the days ahead.

[Skull6]

Shoot, this situation seems to have been handled INFINITELY better than the coaching turn-over at USAFA has been.

Good for them!

[I274]

Academies Are Urged To Change Course
Focus more on foreign language, culture, expert says
By Bradley Olson, Sun Reporter Baltimore Sun February 2, 2007

A former Army officer and Middle East analyst has called on the nation's service academies to trade in their focus on engineering for a more modern curriculum on international relations.

Andrew Exum, who led combat units in two tours in Afghanistan and one tour in Iraq, said the engineering coursework required at the U.S. Naval Academy and U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., is a holdover from the 19th century, when that was the direction of future warfare.

Now, with constant challenges from unstable societies and radicalism, cultural understanding should be the new norm, he wrote in a new policy paper for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a think tank where he is a fellow.

"The service academies have to get serious about international relations," Exum said in a phone interview yesterday. "We need officers to be more culturally aware, more worldly and to have skills in the strategic languages like Arabic, Mandarin and Pashtu, but to do that, they will have to make some real changes to the curriculum."

Senior academic officials in Annapolis, West Point and at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., say they are actively pursuing this goal using tens of millions of dollars allocated by the Defense Department, hiring faculty and sending hundreds of students abroad for language immersion and study abroad programs.

"I think the author, Andrew Exum, has really shown light on exactly the right discussion," said William Miller, the Naval Academy's academic dean. "We all should be asking ourselves how we should be preparing the next generation of leaders in the Navy, Marine Corps, Army and Air Force for the 21st- century battlefield. We are always having that discussion."
Exum, who was commissioned through the Reserve Officer Training Corps after graduating from the University of Pennsylvania, did graduate research while attending the American University in Beirut on how well junior officers in the Army were prepared to lead in the Iraq War.

"Compared to the greater American public, Army officers overall are more worldly, much more likely to have lived abroad, more likely to read news on a daily basis and are more likely to speak a foreign language, and those are all good things," he said. "The bad thing is that they weren't prepared for the cultural environment they found in Iraq and Afghanistan."

While he lauded recent strides to promote cultural awareness, Exum in the policy paper, published Monday, made three challenges to Annapolis and West Point (he left out the Air Force Academy because he said he was not familiar with the training of Air Force officers).

First, the service academies should focus less on an engineering curriculum, he said. Second, they should send more cadets and midshipmen abroad, perhaps as many as 30 percent of all graduates.

And third, Congress and the Defense Department need to consistently fund the study abroad programs.
Miller said the difficulty with changing the curriculum at the Naval Academy is that many graduates need sufficient training to operate nuclear reactors in submarines or work with other cutting-edge technology in the surface fleet.

Only 12 percent to 13 percent of each graduating class enters the Marine Corps infantry field, officers who have been on the front lines in the war on terrorism. And among those, 50 percent are social science or humanities majors.

Still, he said, recent curriculum changes have modified the traditional "Western Civilization" course requirements, instead offering a more global picture of history and society and then allowing midshipmen to specialize in one area.

Officials at all three academies said they are well on their way to sending 30 percent of cadets and midshipmen abroad and hoped to surpass that figure. In the 2005-2006 academic year, the Naval Academy sent 150 midshipmen through language immersion programs, 10 to full semesters abroad at foreign military academies and others to train with foreign navies during summer break.

The Air Force Academy sent 18 cadets to foreign military academies, 12 to foreign civilian universities, 200 to short cultural immersion programs and 225 to language immersion. West Point sent more than 150 to foreign countries, and set a goal to send all language majors, about 10 percent of graduates, for a semester abroad.

Money for the programs is consistent, officials said. The Naval Academy was given $3.2 million a year to send students abroad, add language and culture faculty, as well as $10 million to upgrade teaching facilities; the Air Force Academy received $20 million over five years for the same purposes, and West Point $6.3 million a year until 2011.

"Our foreign language department is the best funded of any academic program that I run at the academy," Miller said. "I think it's indicative of the importance attached to this shift in emphasis by other military departments."

[Skull6]

The hair always stands up on the back of my neck when folks propose trading "hard science" in for "fuzzy studies" at the academies, but I can see where adding some International studies courses could help here.

I'd argue against ditching the engineering focus totally, though. It DOES give us an advantage still...

military adviser to Gov't purchase contract: "We're not buying anymore magnesium-bodied H-34s."

H-34 supplier: "But it makes the bodies of the helicopter so much lighter that the craft has that much more lifting power!"

military adviser to Gov't purchase contract: "Yeah, but I learned at USAFA that magnesium burns brighter & almost as hot as our sun when it's set on fire. We're not buying anymore magnesium-bodied H-34s."

I couldn't find the exact quotes, but this conversation did indeed take place during the Vietnam War.

[I274]

The liberal arts skills suggested are much more relevant to the current operating times. Just think for a moment, how often in your Army career do you have any need or use for Electrical Engineering, Nuclear Physics, Chemistry, Solid and Fluid Mechanics, Thermogoddamnits, and all that Calculus and higher Math? How often in your career did you have use for Foreign Language, Military History, General History, Area Studies, Geography, Philosophy, Personnel and/or Financial Management, etc.

That all said, the critical teaching for the service academies remains Leadership and basic knowledge of our various branches (at least in the Army and USMC. I can understand the Navy having a more science focus since running a ship is system oriented.)

The 47 month intensive leadership lab is the most important element of the curriculum. The academic subjects are only a means to granting a recognized degree, and nobody really cares what the degree is. (Back in the day, we all graduated with “B.S., No Majorâ€

[Skull6]

how often in your Army career do you have any need or use for Electrical Engineering, Nuclear Physics, Chemistry, Solid and Fluid Mechanics, Thermogoddamnits, and all that Calculus and higher Math? How often in your career did you have use for Foreign Language, Military History, General History, Area Studies, Geography, Philosophy, Personnel and/or Financial Management, etc.

LOL. Every time I helped pull maintenance on one of my tanks!


The 47 month intensive leadership lab is the most important element of the curriculum.

I whole-heartedly agree. & by "leadership," I hope you mean "military leadership," & not "corporate management"--as the USAF has seemed to lean pretty heavily towards lately.


The Brits are pretty happy with Sandhurst, that is an intense 24 month leadership lab focused on military training and athletics with academic studies in Military History, General History, Languages, Area Studies, Geography and no degree; just practical knowledge.

These are the same Brits that just pulled off a bayonet charge as part of a raid in Iraq. We haven't done so since the end of the Korean War...just for comparison purposes.

P.S. I was involved in preparing & presenting a "lessons learned" briefing at the British Staff War College right after our return from Desert Storm. The request came from them, through NATO HQ, to us. I got an up close & personal view of what the Brits still deem "acceptable" in their officer corps. I guess their retention rate for officers is so high in part because they don't supply them with a higher education that might make prospects in the civilian world more appealing.

They certainly are a bloody dedicated group of wankers, though! :D

[Associate289]

My math minor certainly helps out in determining whether or not a bridge can hold the tankers' fat asses.

[I274]

FOUR CADETS CHARGED – Feb. 6, 2007

WEST POINT, N.Y. – Charges were preferred yesterday evening against four cadets charged with drug-related offenses.

Cadet Bradley Simms, B Company, 3rd Regiment, Class of 2010, was charged with one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Use of a Controlled Substance-marijuana), one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Use of a Controlled Substance-cocaine), one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Distribution of a Controlled Substance-cocaine) and one violation of Article 134 (Obstruction of Justice) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Cadet Jordan Yeargain, D Company, 3rd Regiment, Class of 2009, was charged with one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Use of a Controlled Substance-cocaine), one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Distribution of a Controlled Substance) and one violation of Article 134 (Obstruction of Justice) of the UCMJ.

Cadet Troy Wilson, E Company, 4th Regiment, Class of 2008, was charged with one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Use of a Controlled Substance-cocaine) of the UCMJ.

Cadet Ryan Pope, G Company, 3rd Regiment, Class of 2010, was charged with one violation of Article 112a (Wrongful Use of a Controlled Substance-cocaine) of the UCMJ.

[Aries]

happened to one of my classmates. he ended up in Leavenworth (sp). another one got turned back. its a fucked up system but some kids fry, others dont get shit.

[I274]

the probelm here is that the substance is cocaine.

we're not talking a bit of recreational dope.

if they are guilty, the Army doesn't need them.

I can bet the other academies are taking a close look at their own back yard.

[Aries]

the turnback was selling coke. he got the same punishemnt for dealing coke and using it, that i got for talking back to an officer and signing out of my room while on room restriction to go smoke.

the one kid that got arrested, he didnt have anything going for him. the kid that got turned back was a great hockey player.

[Cerebroden]

so what exactly is the Proper use of cocaine in the army's eyes?

I mean maybe they just read the FM wrong???

[Skull6]

Maybe they were to use it to scrub toilets & brush their teeth?

[Cerebroden]

Well from what I've heard it does give you that tingly clean feeling

[I274]

Aries will know this guy. 'Had to have been the toughest one to ever graduate.

Henry O. Flipper, USMA 1877, is Honored at Ft. Leavenworth

http://www.ftleavenworthlamp.com/articl ... /news1.txt (http://www.ftleavenworthlamp.com/articles/2007/04/06/news/news1.txt)

[Aries]

shit dude.. he went through most of his time at USMA without being talked to. he was treated equally to those that had committed an honor violation.

[Skull6]

But he persevered & got through it anyway.

It sounds like he had much in common with Rosa Parks, in the fact that they both politely disregarding the idiots around them while trying to do (& doing!) the right thing.

A fine example to follow. I'm glad they finally added his bust there.

[Armor_Ant85]

The officership silenced him on active duty too if I'm not mistaken. When his fellow officers wouldn't speak to him he turned to the only people that would the African American soldiers who happend to be enlisted. So they kicked him out on trumped up embezzlement charges and "conduct unbecoming of an officer".

The embelzzlement charges were dropped and he went on to have a successful career outside the Army.


I read his autobiography The Colored Cadet at West Point , as an African American, it was very inspiring after reading his personal accounts.

[Skull6]

Sounds to me like he should be an inspiration to those of us of a more pale complection as well.

Thanks for sharing the title. I'll be needing a good book to read as I fly to the east coast next month. I think I just decided on the one I'll read.

[Gambit]

as I fly to the east coast next month.

What are you doing in this neck of the woods?

[Skull6]

Convention at Hampton--in their convention center...

[I274]

flying into Norfolk??

going thru D.C. at all??

[Gambit]

going thru D.C. at all??

You in DC?

[I274]

YEP.

the big concrete building on the potomac

[Aries]

you gonna have another fucking last minute conference next time I am up there? was interested in getting the tour.

[I274]

I didn't plan that last one.... (had to hand-hold another director...)

almost always free for a tour. 'just depends on when you might be coming thru.

In 2 weeks I'll be busy for a few days; and in the beginning of June I'll be gone for 2 weeks.

and I missed out meeting you. 'was really looking forward to it.
('been trying to get TDY to FL, but nothing has come up.)

[Aries]

shit gramps, everyone can find a reason to make it to Florida.

[Skull6]

Yeah, I274 can wait till retirement & do what seems like 90% of every other Aemerican retiree does.

Sadly no. I'm flying into Newport News & driving to Hampton...12-19 May.

I274, I'll be at the "Sustainable Range Program (SRP) Conference" a merger of DA's Integrated Training Area Management Program workshop & the Army's Range Symposium. You might find some interesting stuff there yourself.

[Aries]

Newport News? Beautiful stranger can show you around...

and if you are lucky the tour may have a happy ending

[I274]

I'll be at the "Sustainable Range Program (SRP) Conference"

The office next door has that responsibility.
Pinon Canyon and other things too.

[Skull6]

Dude, you & I gotta talk!

[I274]

link has pics of grad parade -- before (forming up in area), during (you can almost hear the Thumper), and after (meeting with the family)... lots of memories...


http://www.usma.edu/Class/2007/graduation/index.html

[Aries]

ah.. last class I hazed has finally gone on to the Army Blue.

[Skull6]

"Music is playing!

Music is over! "

(I used to think those were actual commands at one point... :D )

[Associate289]

Remarks complete.

[I274]

Another class has joined the long gray line.

R-Day was yesterday.

[Aries]

Another class has joined the long gray line.

R-Day was yesterday.

come on old man, you are giving them to much respect. they are fucking new cadets. they rank lower than the superintendents dog, the commandants cat, the waiters in the mess hall, the hellcats, the generals in the air force, and all the admirals in the whole damn navy!!

those worthless shits arent even worthy to look upon a white hat, let alone polish the brass on it.

gaurantee this morning sucked for those that werent able to sleep (which was a lot of them). having to wake up at 5 for a fucking piss test, followed by being scared shitless running across the apron to get to your squad for your first day of PT.

I wore my yellow cadre shirt to the gym yesterday in honor of R-Day.

[I274]

You've probably read the news about how they've changed the words to the Alma Mater and others to be gender-normed... here's some more info you might not have gotten.

Newsletter Items

This summer much has changed for cadets at West Point. The formal academic year has been reduced by two weeks commencing next August and the summer training period has been expanded to 12 weeks, further broken down into three four week sessions. Cadets are required to take a minimum of 15 days of leave during the summer but, otherwise, they may fill up the remaining time on individualized schedules. This change was made to allow more individual scheduling for cadets during the summer, recognizing that some of the cadets were being forced to repeat mundane subject matter training that they had already experienced either in actual combat or in the military before coming to West Point.

Camp Buckner training for new Yearlings has been reduced to four weeks and the "Best Summer of your life" has become much more of a military exercise with no free time for anything else. In fact, the place is now designated as "FOB Buckner". FOB in today’s Army speak means "Forward Operating Base". Cadets are required to have their individual weapons with them at all times and there is a constant cadet guard detail securing the FOB, just as you would find at an actual FOB. There are even IED's planted along the roadways that cadets drive over that are set off randomly giving cadets the experience of a sudden attack. There is still a lot of small unit training and exposure to various branches of service but it’s not as long as in the past. Also, 180 ROTC cadets are being brought to FOB Buckner to train with the Yearlings. It’s to give the ROTC cadets some valuable summer training and to give both groups (ROTC and West Point cadets) some cross cultural acceptance to each other.

With the additional time in the summer schedule and with a shortened Buckner experience Yearlings are now able to take part in military training at Army military schools such as Airborne, Air Assault, Sapper, etc. during the remainder of their summer. Remember that when Buckner took up the entire summer this was not the case.

Firsties will see the biggest change during summer training. In an effort to give them some military training closer to graduation there is, starting this summer, a four week mini-ranger type field training exercise for them. The Firsties will stay in the field that entire time, except for coming in to the post for one night to reorganize and go back out again. This is an extended field training experience to prepare them for small unit leadership.

The Dean scratched his head trying to figure out how to teach all the same academic subject material in two less weeks and came up with a couple of answers. First, shorten Re-organization Week to three days, ending Wednesday evening. Use the Thursday and Friday of that week for academic classes. Second, eliminate some of the holiday time off during the year. Classes are now going to be in session on Columbus Day, Veterans Day, and Martin Luther King Jr’s Birthday. Third, eliminate the Re-Orgy week that used to take place in January so that classes can be substituted there instead. Finally, Plebe Parent Weekend, which used to disrupt a portion of one of the Academic Weeks in October has been moved to the beginning of Spring Break in March and Plebes must stay on post over the first weekend of Spring Break, while the upper classes are permitted to leave on Saturday, to host their parents through the following Monday for the new Plebe Parent Weekend. Then Plebes will be permitted to take a shortened Spring Break. By adding a few minutes here or there to the schedule over the academic year the Dean has managed to cram all the same material into two semesters that are two weeks shorter. We knew the Dean was smart. Now, he has proven it.

Football. Two big changes for football this year. The academy bought out three teams that were already scheduled for the upcoming 2008 season and replaced them with teams against which we may be able to play competitively. Gone from this years schedule are Ohio State, Georgia Tech, and Tulsa. In their place are New Hampshire, Eastern Michigan, and Buffalo. The opening game this season is Friday 29 August 2008, against Temple University. Second, be prepared to see the Option Offense again. For the past 10 years we have been running a Pro offense called the “West Coast Offense”. It’s pretty obvious that this will not work with our team so the coaching staff is going back to the Option and we’ll see it later this year in our next season. Cross your fingers, and wish for a little luck!

The Superintendent has decided that we need to capitalize on our brand name, “West Point”. Most of the literature, T-shirts, and other paraphernalia from USMA will now feature the name West Point prominently on it. I think we all realize that the name “Army” or the letters “USMA” do not really tell most Americans who we are but, mention the name “West Point” and a light goes off in their heads. That's what’s driving this change. “West Point” is our brand.

The cadet overseas experience is expanding. West Point has always had exchanges for some cadets with the Air Force and Naval Academies for a full semester during Cow year. Semester exchanging has expanded to a semester abroad in other countries institutions. Also this past Spring Break, 60 cadets gave up their leave to experience a shortened experience at military academies in other countries; and 500 cadets have some sort of travel abroad experience during the summer training periods.

Some other tidbits of cadet life:
a. The Indoor Obstacle Course (IOCT), still run in the old Hays Gym part of the new Arvin Gym, is not an Army wide test. But, cadets are expected to pass this test. If a cadet fails, no privileges.
b. To give cadets live fire weapons training the rifle ranges on post are open now on Fridays. Cadets can draw weapons and ammunition (M-16, M-4 carbine, pistols) and go out to the range and practice shooting.
c. USMA offered Firsties a two weekend course in Combat Life Saving this semester. 200 Firsties gave up these two weekends to take the course.
d. Demerits are back! For the past few years Article 15's were the punishment of choice for cadets and demerits had been eliminated. This seemed to be too difficult a punishment to administer and too severe for very minor things. Now, cadets and Tac's can again issue demerits for minor infractions.
e. Every cadet will now eat Breakfast with his cadet company and this includes the Corps Squad athletes. Part of a desire to integrate more closely into the Corps these athletes who, in the past, were effectively isolated on Corps Squad tables elsewhere in the Mess Hall.
f. Every Monday, at Lunch formation, a mini-parade takes place on the Plain. Cadets were just not marching in enough parades to maintain march discipline and look good. The Corps forms up for lunch on Monday, marches onto the Plain from two directions (1st and 2ndregiments in one group and 3rd and 4th regiments in the other) and passes in review. And this includes all the Corps Squad athletes. It's an attempt to put a little march discipline back into the cadets with every cadet walking in at lease one parade a week.
g. Speaking of the Mess Hall there is another major change. When food comes to the table it is passed first to the Plebes who take their food and pass it to the upper classes, from junior to more senior. Firsties receive their food last. Take care of your soldiers first is what is taught to officers at West Point and it now starts in the Mess Hall with the Firsties eating last, similar to the philosophy of officers in the Army eating after their men are served.
h. That old staple of Plebe year, Survival Swimming, has been moved to Cow year.
i. SAMI’s (Saturday AM Inspections of the cadet rooms) have been moved to Wednesday (and are now called WAMI’s) because too many athletes were getting out of Saturday room inspections due to athletic contests. Now the room inspections involve all cadets. And, if they fail (as one did recently) they can repeat the process on Thursday (generating a TAMI). I guess if this keeps going until Monday we would have a MAMI.
j. Honor. Cadets now lock their room doors at 2330 hours. This is required. They can lock their doors and sign in electronically prior to 2330 and go to sleep, but if they don't do this the Cadet in Charge of Quarters (CCQ) has to go around at 2330 and check all company rooms that have not already been logged into the system as being locked, to insure that they are locked. The CCQ will check to see that the doors are locked but will not seek to enter the cadet room.
k. The scramble is back. For the past four years cadets have been in the same cadet company for their entire four year experience at USMA. The next Academic Year (starting with Re-Orgy week in August) will see the new Cow class scrambled and put into a different cadet company for the last two years of their cadet life.

Facilities.
a. The new library, Jefferson Hall, is almost completed. It will be open for the next academic year starting in August.
b. The move of the Prep School to West Point is still planned for 2011 but there is some discussion going on at the moment about the extent of facilities that need to be built to accommodate them. As you know, the last Base Realignment and Closing Round authorized by Congress required the closing of Fort Monmouth by 2011 (that’s where the Prep School is currently located) and the re-location of the Prep School to USMA at the same time. No physical construction has started so decisions will have to be made soon or there is going to be somewhat of a problem in meeting the 2011 deadline.
c. The old Boodlers, building 720, was demolished two years ago. It’s an empty lot at the moment. Current thought is that a new set of cadet barracks will be built there starting in 2010. The existing cadet barracks are beginning to show their age and all need to be renovated. Once the new barracks are built the plan is to take one set of older barracks off line at a time and renovate them, rotating through the entire group of cadet barracks buildings.
d. Housing. The old Grad Ghost housing units are set to be demolished this year. In their place new quarters will be constructed. The only problem with this is that the new quarters will have 100 fewer sets of quarters than before. Because of this the old Gray Ghost quarters are being emptied as personnel leave and there will be no housing draw for personnel this summer. Post housing facilities are as tight as can be for incoming personnel. At least the local civilian housing market has some depressed housing prices (compared to several years ago) so that option is more available now than in the past.

[Aries]

Ok. I couldnt get past what was real and what was bullshit.

[I274]

Ok. I couldnt get past what was real and what was bullshit.

It's all official.

::no-go::

[Aries]

the corps has

[Un4given]

Football. Two big changes for football this year.
One of them should be to win.

[I274]

ROTFLMAO :-D

sad, but true.

[Skull6]

Point J still has me perplexed. Usafa has something very similar.

How is it "protecting honor" when you lock the doors when you're in the rooms sleeping. I can see that keeping the peeping toms (& thomasinas) out while you're "vulnerable"...

What about locking them when you're NOT in the rooms--in lieu of having to leave them open when you're not present, but at acadmics or athletics?

[I274]

I think that's all about keeping the libidos in check.

[I274]

My friend found this.
________________________________

Subject: R Day Rehearsal (funny)

The opening line is great: “After being thrown into the heady mess of life as a new West Point cadet - even as a make-believe one for a couple hours - I can, regrettably, say I do not have the right stuff, I cannot be all I can be, I am not Army strong. I'm kinda like dainty, parasol-twirling strong.”


http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article? ... /-1/SPORTS (http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080628/NEWS03/806280368/-1/SPORTS)" target="_blank" target="_blank

R-Day is Reception Day - the day the in-coming class at West Point begins life at the academy and in the Army (which was 30 Jun this year).
This year, the academy had a rehearsal prior to R-Day where they used civilian volunteers to go thru the sequence to ensure the procedures were clear, and to give the upper-classman a chance to rehearse their roles. (a journalist writes about his experience).
... brings back memories...
:)

[Aries]

Fuckin cadet in the red sash and that damn line.

[Un4given]

Did you have a little red sash?