Flight School Q&A [Archive]

Sammy Sandbag

13 October 2005, 12:58

I get questions all the time about flight school and/or aviation branch. Some are PM's, others are just random questions thrown in with unrelated topics. So to help maintain some level of organization, and more importantly, keep me from having to answer the same questions over and over again, I've started this topic.

That being said, here's the disclaimer. I can't promise that I'll be able to answer all your questions, or even correctly answer the ones I think I know. But now is probably the best time to ask them, because I'm still at Mutha Rucker. If I don't know the answer, I'll tell you so, but I'll do my best to find out.

For those of you aspiring to be Army Aviators, don't be afraid to ask a question, no matter how stupid. Remember, there's no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people. And we're all a little stupid. I'd much rather you ask your questions here in the public rather via PM, because chances are there is someone else out there with the very same question.

I'll be keeping close tabs on this topic. Any off-topic FOD material doesn't belong, and it will be sent straight to the bucket.

Now ask away. 8)

Un4given

13 October 2005, 13:09

Dude... I think you answered all 2983429384 of my questions via PM.

CombatCady

13 October 2005, 13:35

Okay, here goes: I have the numbers for the tape testing (arm reach, leg length, etc.), but where could I go to get that properly done? Somewhere where they know exactly where to put the tape, so I don't get fucked over.
Also, do you know of any good (cheap) study guides for the AFAST? My father's a civilian helo pilot and former flight engineer on CH-47s, so he can help me a LOT, but something I can use until I go home would be nice.
Can I go ahead and get a flight physical BEFORE Camp, then not have to worry about it there?
I know that the minimum regs for eyesight are 20/50 correctable to 20/20, but if you're not 20/20 or 20/15 straight off, will it affect which aircraft you get, or even your chances at getting Aviation? Like, say that there's a guy who scores lower than me on the AFAST, but has perfect vision. Will he get taken over me?
Sorry about the barrage, especially since I've never really asked much before, but lately I've been having this little voice in my head saying how great it would be to be a rotor-head...

Aries

13 October 2005, 13:37

FSU sends people to benning for flight physicals before camp so that they dont have to deal with the problems that arise at camp and so everything can be done for accessions beforehand.

Krizo

13 October 2005, 14:10

Eyesight, eyesight, eyesight. That is my biggest worry right now.

Also, I cant major in aviation piloting or even get my license at an airport because I cant afford it. I know that it doesnt matter what major you have, but I think we'd all agree that if you want to be a basket weaver in the army then why not major in basket weaving in college?

I am very interested in aviation, but only from a military standpoint...not what Leonardo da Vinci drew in his notebook about parachutes, or how Joseph and Etienne Montgolfier watched lightweight paper go up a chimney and figured that gas that was lighter than air could be used for lifting power so they made a hot air balloon which is what we're discussing in my intro. to aviation class. The class doesnt have anything to do with what I'm interested in. All the students talk about really is what airline they want to fly for and what piece of junk civilian plane they flew in to get their license. It all sounds really corny to me, lots of goofy kids in that class.

Considering that choice of major doesnt really matter, would changing my major next semester be a bad idea? I'm only a freshman and I'm only taking one major related class, the rest of my classes I would need for any other major. If so...any suggestions? Dont say criminal justice or law enforcement or anything. My dad and grandpa are/were police officers, not interested.

I know my choice depends on what I want, but I'm looking for personal experiences. "Oh, I majored in blah blah and it was great! It was easy, and lots of fun!", would probably be the best answer, but I'm probably not going to get it, haha.

Also, any input that anyone has on their branch would be helpful if I were to decide to switch up branch choices and match a major to it.

Sammy Sandbag

13 October 2005, 14:12

Okay, here goes: I have the numbers for the tape testing (arm reach, leg length, etc.), but where could I go to get that properly done? Somewhere where they know exactly where to put the tape, so I don't get fucked over.

You're NCO cadre should be able to do this just fine.

Also, do you know of any good (cheap) study guides for the AFAST? My father's a civilian helo pilot and former flight engineer on CH-47s, so he can help me a LOT, but something I can use until I go home would be nice.

Yes, the ARCO test guide is pretty decent: Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/076891700X/qid=1129226740/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-8407398-0799966?v=glance&s=books)

The best thing you can do is take the practice tests that are included with the study guide, but make sure you have someone time you. The test isn't very difficult, but you are given very little time to answer each question. Your father will be able to provide you with more information than you'll get out of that guide, so go bother him. Also keep in mind that if you fail the test, there's a mandatory 6 month waiting period before you can retest. So it's in your best interest to take the AFAST early. I took it my sophomore year.

Can I go ahead and get a flight physical BEFORE Camp, then not have to worry about it there?

Sure. Talk to your cadre and see if they can schedule you one at a nearby post.

I know that the minimum regs for eyesight are 20/50 correctable to 20/20, but if you're not 20/20 or 20/15 straight off, will it affect which aircraft you get, or even your chances at getting Aviation? Like, say that there's a guy who scores lower than me on the AFAST, but has perfect vision. Will he get taken over me?

Nope. It's pass/fail. It has no bearing on whether or not you get branched aviation or what aircraft you receive.

Sorry about the barrage, especially since I've never really asked much before, but lately I've been having this little voice in my head saying how great it would be to be a rotor-head...

no problem.

Sammy Sandbag

13 October 2005, 14:15

Considering that choice of major doesnt really matter, would changing my major next semester be a bad idea? I'm only a freshman and I'm only taking one major related class, the rest of my classes I would need for any other major. If so...any suggestions? Dont say criminal justice or law enforcement or anything. My dad and grandpa are/were police officers, not interested.

I changed my major twice before I found what I liked. Like I said earlier to you, do something that interests you.

Cerebroden

13 October 2005, 14:16

well for starters you might try not being such an arrogant fuck and realize that your beggining aviation class is giving you insites on how to deal with thermals and air currents, so you might actually want to remember some of that...second check and see if your local regional airport has any sort of programs that allows you to go up and fly with recruiters or instructors...I know the marine corp has something like that here in Tally. Honestly I'd say if you know yoru gonna go aviation i.e. your gonna tack on the 3 extra years to guarantee it, than I'd take whatever the fuck you wanted to in college, major in social ignorance, take all the cool classes, and be a hippy for 4 years, cuz once your out it'll never be the same again

Skull6

13 October 2005, 14:20

Son, contrary to what Sammy'll tell ya, a helicopter doesn't really fly--it beats the air into submission.

I've had roomies who majored in aerodynamics end up flying satellites, & others who majored in "general studies" go on to be IPs & to command fighter squadrons.

Bottom-line: Uncle Sam says that it wants most officers to have A (read: "any") college degree. If they want you to have further, more in-depth studies later on, they'll send you to the school.

Fast forward some 25 years. Think you're just going to retire on what you make in terms of a military retirement pension? Think again. Therefore, you'll need a second profession. What would you want to be doing THEN? THAT's what you might want to concentrate your major towards, imo.

Krizo

13 October 2005, 14:26

Thanks for all the help. All eyesight questions have been answered in that other thread, sorry I posted it here again.

Sammy Sandbag

13 October 2005, 14:28

Un4given, if you still have those POCs I gave you for the surgery waivers, you might want to post them here. I'm sure you found some better ones than the ones I gave you.

GIJared

13 October 2005, 17:53

Was I retarded to guarantee aviation for 9 years?

Sammy Sandbag

13 October 2005, 19:30

I personally think the guarantee branch scheme is a bad idea in general for this reason; it's asking a young college student to commit to 10 years (don't forget that year you spend at Rucker doesn't count) to Army. I always hear young cadets say "I want to make a career out of the Army, so it's worth it." I'm sorry, but if you have never been in the Army, you don't know that yet. I may very well spend 30+ years in the Army, but I'm not going to be so brazen to think I can predict the future as a 20-something college student. Not only may you not enjoy the Army, but you may find out your branch isn't all it's cracked up to be. We lose flight students every now and then who just don't like it. Flying is awesome, but it's not just getting in a cockpit and cruising around. 99% of your time is spent planning, briefing, studying, etc, etc. People who have never flown don't realize this. The attrition rate is high right now for 0-3's who have reached their ADSO. Guys are just getting sick of going on their 3rd tour in the ME. I don't care if you're John Rambo, that shit will wear you down. If it doesn't break you, it might hurt your marriage. I've seen alot of CPTs ETSing here. They love the flying, but there's only so much you and your family can take.

Reason number two is; how were you to know that you weren't going to get your first branch choice in the first place? If your scores/points are competitive, then I wouldn't do it. Reason number three is there's this little thing called branch transfer. It's hard to do, but it happens. My OBC class leader was a CPT who transfered from AG.

Basically this guarantee branch program is a win-win retainment program for the Army. Chances are there are good percentage of those in this contract who would have received their first choice anyways. So now they got you for another 3 years.

Just my thoughts.

CombatCady

14 October 2005, 00:23

Fuckin' A, Sammy, I appreciate it. And good points about the guaranteed branch thing. If my scores aren't competetive, I still might do it, but otherwise, I'll just hope for the best and transfer if I need to (and it's possible).

Skull6

18 October 2005, 10:34

Who woulda thunk a rotor-head could be wise beyond his years? :D

GIJared

18 October 2005, 17:21

brianm423

18 October 2005, 19:08

I'm currently an MSIII and thinking about branching aviation but not 100% sure yet. Should I take the test ASAP even if I decide next semester that I wanna branch something else? Also, what determines what post you get after flight school? Are there only specific places where choppers are needed or could I be sent anywhere?

Thanks for the help. Sorry if these are dumb questions.

zfynxs

18 October 2005, 19:13

On the subject above. I am positive I will fail the AFAST but should I take to find out if I'm failing in something other than my vision?

Un4given

18 October 2005, 19:22

I'm currently an MSIII and thinking about branching aviation but not 100% sure yet. Should I take the test ASAP even if I decide next semester that I wanna branch something else?I can help here... If you mean the AFAST, take it ASAP so if you fail it you can wait the 6 months and retake it. Once you pass that's the final straw for you and you accept that score.

On the subject above. I am positive I will fail the AFAST but should I take to find out if I'm failing in something other than my vision?I can help here too... I think you mean the flight physical, the AFAST is a competency test for aviation. I was advised by Rucker to take the flight physical first to see what else is wrong with me then go get PRK laser eye surgery, which I did. Now I'm completely qualified and just waiting for them to dish out the branches.

Hey Sammy, just helping ya out where I can. ;)

Krizo

18 October 2005, 22:21

What makes up the AFAST? Gotta' paper due in twelve hours, don't feel like finding out myself.

Sammy Sandbag

18 October 2005, 22:55

How does post choice work? From what I understand, I can put down my wishlist for posts after I get branched, but if I go to flight school, couldn't the type of helicopter I get assigned change where I get located?

Yes, if you are branched aviation, then you will not find out your first assignment until you complete flight school. Under normal circumstances you find out during OBC, which is the last course you take (under the new FSXXI program.)

Also, what determines what post you get after flight school? Are there only specific places where choppers are needed or could I be sent anywhere?

Your first assignment is based on what's available and your OML. Not all posts have aviation units, and it also depends on the model aircraft you fly. All the major installations have aviation units. The one's I've seen LTs go to are Hood, Bragg, Campbell, Lewis, Carson, Polk, Drum, Hunter AAF, Korea, Germany, Honduras.

What makes up the AFAST? Gotta' paper due in twelve hours, don't feel like finding out myself.

You're probably better off asking one of the younger guys, I took it 5 years ago. But as I recall, there are sections on personality, basic aerodynamics and mechanics, and then several problem solving sections. But the Army is in the process of testing a new version of the aptitude entrance test. I don't recall the name of it, but they asked for volunteers to take it yesterday.

Un4given

19 October 2005, 00:14

What makes up the AFAST? Gotta' paper due in twelve hours, don't feel like finding out myself.g0og1e f001.
http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/d ... 870301.pdf (http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/download/DA%20Pam%20611-256-2%2019870301.pdf)

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,740,000 for afast flight. (0.89 seconds)
...it was the top result of 1,740,000 results and if you pressed "I'm feeling lucky" you would have gotten it probably 0.34 seconds faster.

But anywho, that link is the test basically. Enjoy.

ceryiorlan

19 October 2005, 14:56

Yeah, they're working replacing the AFAST. I took that thing. They called it the SIFT test, but I think that's just the selection program, not the name of the new test.
It was actually just the Navy flight selection test, so there was a bunch of crap about boats on it. I mean seriously, boats? 8)

GIJared

13 November 2005, 17:55

What, if any chances are there for attending other army training schools from flight school? Ranger school, air assault school, etc.

People are telling me they won't send pilots to ranger school for fear of their million dollar investment getting hurt, but since they opened it up to everyone I'm curious.

Sammy Sandbag

13 November 2005, 18:24

You can get a ranger slot. 3 guys from my OBC class are going, it's not that uncommon. The only way you'll get air assault or airborne is if your first assignment is Campbell or Bragg, respectively.

Un4given

13 November 2005, 18:28

Fuck flight school! TOBC Hoooooah! lol! (i'm kidding)

GIJared

13 November 2005, 18:33

You can get a ranger slot. 3 guys from my OBC class are going, it's not that uncommon. The only way you'll get air assault or airborne is if your first assignment is Campbell or Bragg, respectively.
OK, how difficult is it to get? Do they have a seperate Pre-Ranger course?

Thanks.

GIJared

13 November 2005, 18:33

Also, do you go as soon as flight school is over?

Sammy Sandbag

13 November 2005, 18:39

I can't really answer that. From what I've seen, if you really want it, you can go. The pre-ranger course is the same as for everyone else. If you're asking about here at Rucker, then no, that's all up to you. One of my buddies attended the pre-Ranger at Benning after finishing FSXXI, but before starting OBC. He'll return to the actual Ranger course after he graduates here. As far as when you go, that's just like any other Army school. They'll send you when they have the slots open, but yes it'll be before you arrive at your first unit.

Girex

30 November 2005, 01:34

do you think we will get to PCS move before BOLC 2?

Aries

30 November 2005, 10:33

i heard a story from armor OBC that they asked the LTs who wanted a Ranger slot. a shitload of hands went up. first day, they smoked the ever living piss out of them. the next day when only 12 showed up, they started the real pre-ranger which was a lot less than what they did the first day.

Sammy Sandbag

30 November 2005, 11:27

do you think we will get to PCS move before BOLC 2?

I have no idea how things are working with this new BOLC program.

Girex

30 November 2005, 14:42

do you think we will get to PCS move before BOLC 2?

I have no idea how things are working with this new BOLC program.

I know a lot of new LTs are going to ask this question, especially aviation people who get to PCS before we start.

My dad (ret. COL) seems to think the army has to PCS move you somewhere before they give you TDY even, so if your married your wife sits someplace with your shit(hopefully alabama) or your shit sits in storage until you get done with bolc(worst case i guess)

Sammy Sandbag

30 November 2005, 15:42

Again, not sure about that. Aviation is the only OBC that involves a PCS move. Ask someone from another branch how they worked it, because they do go on TDY orders to OBC.

ceryiorlan

30 November 2005, 17:29

I highly doubt they would PCS you, then send you TDY. BOLC will probably be TDY enroute, that is how I did it. It will be the same is if you work camp or something before going to Rucker.

Birddog

30 November 2005, 18:54

BOLC is TDY. OBC is TDY unless you go to AVN or another branch OBC over 180 days.

Sammy Sandbag

30 November 2005, 20:48

Right, we understand that. I believe the question was if you are married, do you get PCS orders to Rucker and TDY enroute to BOLC or does your family just stay put till you go to Rucker.

Girex

30 November 2005, 22:49

Right, we understand that. I believe the question was if you are married, do you get PCS orders to Rucker and TDY enroute to BOLC or does your family just stay put till you go to Rucker.

My dad said that the army has to PCS you somewhere... you have to "move" to a homestation even if you are in training. IE you dont leave to OBC and just have all your stuff in your apartment back home.

My PMS seems to believe that they will PCS move or store single/married soldiers crap before they leave to BOLC or OBC.

Either way the wife is moving to alabama in july to start her nursing school so if our junk is in a storage unit and the movers have to go get it from there... sucks to be them lol.

Associate289

1 December 2005, 07:27

I think it'll be easier for the movers when its in a storage unit. All in one place, mostly boxed up. Yeah, thats what Id prefer.

and my dad can beat up your dad

Girex

1 December 2005, 09:06

cant pack stuff in boxes you can just store stuff in boxes...ie dont seal them. if you pre pack stuff then you have to sign a waver that if it gets damaged its your fault. Dad said something always broke, but he always came out ahead.

I274

1 December 2005, 19:00

Right, we understand that. I believe the question was if you are married, do you get PCS orders to Rucker and TDY enroute to BOLC or does your family just stay put till you go to Rucker.

Your family stays put until you go to Rucker.

And about Ranger School... Why, as an aviator, would you want to go to Ranger School?? (other than the fact it's the best leadership school in the Army). Your land nav skills aren't needed as an aviator -- you just follow roads.
;-)

GIJared

1 December 2005, 19:19

And about Ranger School... Why, as an aviator, would you want to go to Ranger School?? (other than the fact it's the best leadership school in the Army). Your land nav skills aren't needed as an aviator -- you just follow roads.
;-)

Why not? If they've got the slots and they'll send me, I'll go.

Plus I want to see if I can hack it.

Sammy Sandbag

1 December 2005, 19:30

Yeah, and then have even less time as a PL. It's not a wise idea.

I274

1 December 2005, 19:31

Plus I want to see if I can hack it.

'not the attitude to go there...

no "if I can hack it".

better = To prove to myself that I can do it.

If you don't have the attitude that you WILL complete it, don't waste your time. The only thing that will get you through is your motivation... the fire in your belly.

If you are serious, you better be in shape. The largest number of washouts are from those who can't hang.

Aries

1 December 2005, 19:57

shut up grandpa

airjun

1 December 2005, 22:01

yah, seriously doubt going to through the benning POW camp will make you a better pilot

GIJared

1 December 2005, 22:14

yah, seriously doubt going to through the benning POW camp will make you a better pilot
Its not my goal to become the most amazing pilot in the army, as an officer its my goal to become a better leader. That's what ranger school does.

It's something I'm motivated to do. If it has a slight effect on my career because I missed out on 2 months as a PL, I'm not going to worry too much. I'm not in it for a career.

In the end, debating about this right now doesn't really matter much anyways...I'm almost 2 years away from going, so things could change. Thanks for your input, however.

airjun

1 December 2005, 23:24

You're a better aviation leader by knowing your job ie time in service doing your job...... Not starving yourself in the woods for a month. MO.

Sammy Sandbag

1 December 2005, 23:26

There was a good thread on platoonleader.army.mil about this very subject. Go read it, it covers about everything I'd say on the subject.

Associate289

2 December 2005, 12:23

You're a better aviation leader by knowing your job ie time in service doing your job...... Not starving yourself in the woods for a month. MO.

so in your theory, no one but infantry should go to ranger school

Aries

2 December 2005, 13:49

heard that before.

but the problem with going to Ranger school as an aviator is you really arent going to need it, along with the fact that its going to cut into that precious LT time that you really dont have that much of anyway. you are going to be behind your year group who went to flight school before you, and when it comes time for boars that tab isnt going to help you as much as someone who has a shitload more flight hours than you do.

I talked to both my old Aviation rep as well as a LTC who flew with 160th about it before. they both said it was a noble idea, but it would be bad for your career as an aviator.

Associate289

2 December 2005, 17:49

and when it comes time for boars that tab isnt going to help you as much as someone who has a shitload more flight hours than you do.

well considering right now that we have majors pinning on before 10 years, and the promotion rate to O-4 is, correct me if Im wrong, somewhere around 97.5% (quoting OBC 1SG on this), I really dont think going to ranger school would effect it as much. yes, you lose precious pl time. no, you wont have as many flying hours. its up to the individual to balance what he wants more.

and now that aviation and other non CA branches have been opened up to Ranger school (some more so than others) how long is will it be until you see females there?

Krizo

2 December 2005, 18:51

how long is will it be until you see females there?

Don't give anyone any ideas now...

Aries

2 December 2005, 20:30

not anytime soon.

Skull6

5 December 2005, 10:09

I look at it differently. It might not be the gold star for your next promo, but...

For the same reason we USED to put every cadet through SERE at USAFA. "Why do missile & satellite pilots need survival training?" "Because they have a greater understanding of their TRUE limits. & people who have a better knowledge of their true limits are better able to gage those same limits in others--which should hopefully make them better leaders."

"It ain't about the achievement, it's about the tools you end up with."

Sammy Sandbag

5 December 2005, 11:13

Well that's a wee bit different. First of all, that CST training the USAFA cadets attended didn't cut into their PL time. They don't have PL slots, and the training was conducted before they commissioned. Second, all Army aviators will attend C (some like myself will attend B+ and C.) So you are finding your TRUE limits, as well as it being useful training for your actual job.

As I see it, Ranger is really only benefiting a RLO aviator if they end up as an LNO for an Infantry unit. It gives you that good first impression, and distracts from the fact that you are "only a fly-boy." But that only goes so far. Grunts aren't as dumb as some of us would like to think, and they, just like anyone else, will quickly see through to what you actually are. If you were a shit bird before the tab, you'll in all likelihood still be one afterwards. What's more valuable to a ground commander is a young liaison who actually has a working knowledge of air assets. And that entails having spent time doing the job.

I274

5 December 2005, 11:18

What's more valuable to a ground commander is a young liaison who actually has a working knowledge of air assets.

You're pretty smart for a non-rated Aviator. You obviously paid attention in OBC. ;-)

Sammy Sandbag

5 December 2005, 11:29

Uhmmm, I am a rated Aviator.

Aries

5 December 2005, 11:32

ZING!

I274

5 December 2005, 11:43

I stand corrected on a technicality. ‘figured that since you were awaiting transition for the Apache, you were just a rotor-head, not a real aviator…

;-)

Sammy Sandbag

5 December 2005, 11:47

There are old grey-haired warrants awaiting transitions, doesn't imply anything about a rated/non-rated status.

I however am only rated in the OH-58A/C Clear-Weather-Minor-Annoyance Helicopter and the TH-67 Orange Creamsicle.

Aries

5 December 2005, 12:03

HAHAHA

SF Brat

1 May 2006, 22:11

Sammy, just curious if you've heard anything about the selection process for SOAR, if it's anything like the SF Q course (and I guess by that I mean months of physical smoking, language, etc).

Associate289

1 May 2006, 22:23

Take the crossed arrows off your profile. We use them to identify what branch you are, not what you aspire to be.

Cerebroden

1 May 2006, 22:30

then there are a few people on here that need to change their's as well....

Associate289

1 May 2006, 22:50

It's one thing if accessions told you what your branch is, it's another if you're an MS I acting like you're delta...

acedeuce

1 May 2006, 23:32

Agree with Associate.

Sammy Sandbag

2 May 2006, 10:49

Sammy, just curious if you've heard anything about the selection process for SOAR, if it's anything like the SF Q course (and I guess by that I mean months of physical smoking, language, etc).

Agree with the others, remove the SF insignia before I do it for you. I don't know too much about assession to SOAR, but it wouldn't be compairable to the Q course. I think you have a long time before you even have to concern yourself with that.

SF Brat

2 May 2006, 12:41

First of all I never made any claims, nor will I ever, about being an 18A.

Second, I was just curious about SOAR. Never said anything about me wanting to get into it.

Finally, I grew up on Fort Bragg (for better or for worse hahaha). I just put up the crossed arrows because that's what I know since my family and all my friends' family were part of the JFKSWCS. So if you're going to take that off my thing you might as well come to my house and take the 3d Group hat off my head or anything any of my friends wear because they support their fathers who are also serving with 3rd group.

acedeuce

2 May 2006, 12:51

Listen, we respect and appreciate what your dad, and your friends' dads have done for our country. Truly.

However you're getting to be a big boy now, and as such you will have to earn the right to wear things on your own.

This is a professional website, if you want to honor those soldiers put a message in your sig block or something, but we are not a bunch of middle schoolers playing cowboys and indians. You should not be displaying SF branch insignia for the same reason that if you were to enlist or join ROTC today you would not have that insignia - You haven't earned it yet. End of story.

Sammy Sandbag

2 May 2006, 12:54

Removed... Thanks ace, said what I was going to. Brat, you got a lot of growing up to do, no one really wants to hear about how great your dad is. You're not going to go very far if you keep brining it up, and often will piss off more people than you impress.

GIJared

2 May 2006, 13:01

This is a professional website

::wtfo::

acedeuce

2 May 2006, 13:02

This is a professional website

::wtfo::

Yeah you like that one? I heard someone else say it the other day and thought it sounded official.

Sammy Sandbag

2 May 2006, 13:11

I think we're very select in our professionalism, but it is there.

Aries

2 May 2006, 13:12

Brat, we understand what you are trying to say but the purpose of those is to show what you either are or were. sig blocks are for what you aspire to be.

we arent trying to get you to take down your posters, GI Joes and other stuff. but its just an identification on here for people.

SF Brat

2 May 2006, 15:13

Alright, I give up. I know any further attempts to vindicate myself will be turned around and I'll end up looking like a shitbag.

Aries

2 May 2006, 15:25

Alright, I give up. I know any further attempts to vindicate myself will be turned around and I'll end up looking like a shitbag.

DUDE, there is no need to vindicate yourself. you made a simple mistake in choosing an icon not understanding what the purpose of it is on this site. you arent looking like a shitbag, you just had the initial intention of showing what you wanted to aspire to be. get over it and relax.

oh yeah, did you post an intro?

Associate289

2 May 2006, 15:40

Listen, you have every right to be proud of what your father did. We told you why you needed to remove the icon, deal with it. You're a big boy now and representing yourself with crossed arrows and a name like "SF Brat" shows that you're still stuck in middle school. Grow up.

acedeuce

2 May 2006, 15:42

Wait a minute. You just finished your MSII year? :-?

Sorry to keep hijacking ye olde thread Sammy... SF Brat go post an intro so we can talk there!

Lancer33

6 May 2006, 21:52

probably should not butt in but I have to say that i agree 100% with the concept that displaying unearned insignia is wrong. On most of the other sites I live on that will get you a major dog pile. Be proud of what your dad has done but also be carefull not to do anything that might be considered a missrepresentation of who you are.

PRM16Tiddle

7 May 2006, 01:10

This is a professional website

::wtfo::

Yeah you like that one? I heard someone else say it the other day and thought it sounded official.

hehehe :D

JohnnyFargo

15 June 2006, 13:10

GIJared

15 June 2006, 14:57

thats a nasty rumor...I'd start crying.

Associate289

15 June 2006, 15:27

I cant give you a definitive yes/no answer, but I have a buddy at flight school right now who just got his selection (fixed wing) and said that no one in his class got 58's.

Aries

15 June 2006, 15:32

they are replacing it starting next year (supposedly). you should see the beast the army is getting.

http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.com/en/aircraft/military/ARH/bellARH3.cfm

i guess its no point in putting new officers in aircraft that they are trying to phase out huh?

and your buddy got fixed wing? damn. whose dick did he suck.

Skull6

15 June 2006, 15:42

You mean, besides Assoc's?

(j/k already!) :D

Associate289

15 June 2006, 17:50

Cough cough, fuck you old man, cough cough

And I'm not sure how he got it to be honest with you, I'll ask. But he's happy as shit, comes with a Top Secret clearance too.

Sammy Sandbag

15 June 2006, 18:26

Sammy-

I heard a rumor recently that no more pilots were being selected to fly OH-58D's after flight school because the Army is getting rid of that airframe in its current capacity. Have you heard anything about this or have any information to shine some light on the subject?

Seriously doubtful. They just don't stop training an aircraft because a new one is coming out. The last 64A didn't leave Rucker until a few months ago, and the 64D has been around since '98. It'll be several years before everything is converted over to the ARH.

And I'm not sure how he got it to be honest with you, I'll ask. But he's happy as shit, comes with a Top Secret clearance too.

Just like any other aircraft. Slots open up, then they go down the OML asking what you want. And nothing "comes with a TS" clearance, you have to put in the paperwork, be investigated and interviewed just like everyone else.

Un4given

15 June 2006, 18:37

Fuck flight school! Want to learn to fly!? Ft Benning, GA. Learn to fly there. Airborne!

[/end bitter taste in my mouth because of aviation]
:D

JohnnyFargo

15 June 2006, 18:54

I know about fixed wing units in the Army...but i still can't figure out why you'd want to fly in them? What am i missing here?

Un4given

15 June 2006, 20:27

I know about fixed wing units in the Army...but i still can't figure out why you'd want to fly in them? What am i missing here?Get an Army scholarship... Obligated 4 years... Realize you want to fly fixed-wing but too late to jump on the USAF band wagon... Fly army fixed-wing.

Sammy Sandbag

15 June 2006, 20:49

I know about fixed wing units in the Army...but i still can't figure out why you'd want to fly in them? What am i missing here?

Low(er) risk job, less maintenence issues, more relaxed, potential civilian jobs. But, IMHO, seems awfully boring, I wasn't interested in fixed-wing. Go get your PPL SEL (that's what I did.) 5 LT's from the class ahead of me were given FW slots, but that is rather unusual.

ceryiorlan

15 June 2006, 21:00

I heard a rumor recently that no more pilots were being selected to fly OH-58D's after flight school because the Army is getting rid of that airframe in its current capacity. Have you heard anything about this or have any information to shine some light on the subject?
Not true. I'm in flight school right now, in the 58D course, and they are still selecting people and starting more classes. It will probably take a good 5-10 years for the Army to transition to ARH, so there should still be 58 slots available.

Associate289

15 June 2006, 21:39

And nothing "comes with a TS" clearance, you have to put in the paperwork, be investigated and interviewed just like everyone else.

Oh Samuel, I know that. I used it in the same way that I'd say, "Branching MI comes with a TS clearnce".

Sammy Sandbag

15 June 2006, 21:45

JohnnyFargo

16 June 2006, 08:38

Aries

16 June 2006, 10:13

the answer to all of your questions (http://www.google.com)

JohnnyFargo

16 June 2006, 11:21

the answer to all of your questions (http://www.google.com)

Oh thanks for the help. Here's a good site you should check out.

http://www.fuckyou.com

Aries

16 June 2006, 11:25

didnt I fucking tell you I wanted to see a picture of the boots?

Associate289

16 June 2006, 11:25

hahahahhahahah

Sammy Sandbag

16 June 2006, 11:30

Anyone heard what it's new designation be?

http://www.aisforarmy.com/bb/viewtopic. ... 9170#49170 (http://www.aisforarmy.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=49170#49170)

Inc

28 June 2007, 17:47

Gonna ask some stupid questions here and resurrect this old sticky..

What do you need to be competitive for aviation as far as GPA, AFAST scores, and other stuff I haven't thought of? I talked to my one of my cadre who is a pilot, and he told me that with ADSO I have like a 95% chance of getting it - and I don't believe that for a second.

Is there anything I need to be doing now to help me get aviation?

Thanks.

Sammy Sandbag

28 June 2007, 22:35

Is there anything I need to be doing now to help me get aviation?

Study for and take the AFAST.

Inc

29 June 2007, 13:49

How far ahead should you start studying? When do you take the AFAST and who do I have to talk to about it?

Aries

29 June 2007, 14:13

How far ahead should you start studying? When do you take the AFAST and who do I have to talk to about it?

i believe (and I may be wrong) you need to take it and pass the flight physical before you go to camp. i think they may do the physical at camp, but from what i was told it was easier to get everything taken care of beforehand in case you need waivers or whatever. start studying for it as soon as you decide you want to fly. There are a lot of things on there that are common sense, but there are also some things that you should at least learn. I wish I had actually studied for that thing instead of just taking it, but I recommend getting a study guide (your program should offer it) and studying now!

Inc

29 June 2007, 14:31

As for the Arco study guide on the first page [of this thread]...

I picked up a study guide a while back from a buddy, and it mostly just had questions and answers, didn't really have an explanation of any of the concepts. I'm looking for a book that will teach me as much as test me, is this that book?

Associate289

29 June 2007, 15:19

Sammy correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your AFAST score doesn't matter-as long as you pass.

And yes, they do the physical at camp. You'll know who all the cadets that took it by the sunglasses they have to wear.

Aries

29 June 2007, 15:27

its pretty much pass/fail. you have your score but it doesnt really matter. This was what I was informed of when I took it, but that was a few years ago.

Cerebroden

29 June 2007, 17:10

same thing I was told in January. get the study guide and do the practice tests. After your finished look at the Air Force test and be thankful you don't have to study.

GIJared

30 June 2007, 02:51

its still pretty much pass/fail as I understand it. they're supposedly working on a new version of the test that I've heard is harder...haven't seen it yet though.

I definitely recommend picking up a test review book. They won't cover basic helicopter knowledge, for that I recommend just doing research online, or buying a book seperately for that.
amazon book link (http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Helicopter-Flight-W-Wagtendonk/dp/1560276495/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-0746029-0794840?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183186021&sr=8-1)
This book looks decent.

personally, the test prep book was really good for me, as there was one particular section that I found pretty difficult until I practiced it a lot.

Sammy Sandbag

30 June 2007, 16:44

I don't know how they factor in the score into accessions, if they do at all. But that's no reason to not do well on it.

As for when to take it, the sooner the better. There was, and I don't know the current reg, a 6 month waiting period between retests should you fail. I took it my sophomore year and got it out of the way.

Cerebroden

30 June 2007, 23:19

as of jan. there was still a 6 month wait

Inc

1 July 2007, 00:52

So what are the biggest factors in being selected?

Sammy Sandbag

1 July 2007, 09:14

So what are the biggest factors in being selected?

Same as any other branch, once you get past the requirements (flight phys, AFAST) You must also list Aviation as your number one branch choice in order to be considered.

So: camp, gpa, oml, etc. Someone else will have to chime in with the current accessions process, as it seems to change every year.

cadet_scotto

1 July 2007, 14:50

Glad this thread was resurrected, I was actually just checking it out the other day and found most of my questions already answered. I'm also looking at flying. however I'm an MSIII and have heard nothing from the cadre. The Lasik is pretty much the only thing I'm concerned about. Any positive (or otherwise) feedback? Will the Army pay for it? My dad's an active duty Air Force LtCol, think the Air Force would pay? I have no basis for any of this, just purely wondering.

Sammy Sandbag

1 July 2007, 16:27

I believe Un4given went through the eye surgery, I gave most of the contact info I had to him. Your best bet is to contact him or someone who has gone through the procedure to ensure you meet all the requirements. If you can't find someone, contact a flight surgeon at Aeromed at Rucker. You can probably find all the POC you'll need by Googling. Time is becomming an issue, so I'd get on this.

Cerebroden

1 July 2007, 17:11

you've got to wait 6 months after your lasik before you can take the flight physical for your eyes. Pretty sure its longer but you can get a waiver for it down to 6. and the Army won't pay for it until you get in. So if you want it done while your in ROTC i'm pretty sure you'll have to pay for it on your own.

CombatCady

2 July 2007, 08:01

Yup, if you want LASIK or PRK as a Cadet, it's gonna be on your dime... Can't wait to get settled in at Carson so I can get my eyes zapped.

Ryan

29 August 2007, 16:32

For anyone who has any questions on LASIK, I had it done last year and took my flight physical at camp this passed summer. I had no complications and everything went through okay. There were no hiccups in the process. I just received my pilot slot for an aviation unit as well (National Guard) so if you have any questions on that I can help you out.

My question is... if I'm a 2008 graduate, when is the soonest I can expect to go to flight school?

Associate289

29 August 2007, 17:30

I just received my pilot slot for an aviation unit as well (National Guard) so if you have any questions on that I can help you out.

My question is... if I'm a 2008 graduate, when is the soonest I can expect to go to flight school?

Depends on a few things- when they can get a slot/how motivated you are/etc.

Did you get a slot from NY, and if you did- Rochester, Latham or Ronkonkoma?

Ryan

29 August 2007, 17:58

Associate289

29 August 2007, 18:17

The slot is in Rochester. Right now it's with B Co, 3-126 Aviation, but I'm hoping to switch to the 249 Med Co at some point. They gave me the Chinook unit so I get branched AV as opposed to MSC for the Medevac unit that I'm currently in.

Also, are you a drilling LT when you haven't gone to OBC? Or is it like AD where you sit around until you get orders to BOLC II? (If that's even the case)

Yes, you need to drill before you go to OBC. Don't be like one of the idiots I commissioned with who just sat on his fat ass and waited for his chain of command to call- 3 months later. They were quite pissed.

Some LTs don't really give a shit and put it off for a long time. Technically you're supposed to go within a certain amount of time (I think for NYARNG you need to be scheduled within a year), but in reality you could get away with not going for a long time, especially if you have good reasons (wedding/job/etc).

Since it sounds like you already belong to a unit, I highly recommend you contact your unit and check to see if you need to drill as a cadet. Even if you aren't on scholarship. If that unit is giving up a flight school slot for you, they could want to see you drilling.

Ryan

29 August 2007, 22:06

No worries, I'm already drilling with my (hopefully) future unit.

I only asked about the flight school dates because If I'm going to have some down time I'd like to start grad school and not just sit around. In any case, It sounds like it will work.

I274

6 September 2007, 16:46

riding on the outside of an Apache...

forgot where we talked about this before, but I found a few pics on the Army homepage that you rotorheads would like.

http://www.army.mil/-slideshows/2007/08 ... che-style/ (http://www.army.mil/-slideshows/2007/08/28/4632-riding-shotgun-apache-style/)

Skull6

6 September 2007, 18:39

Nothing like having your head right near a jet engine intake that's as big as your...er...head, I guess.

Girex

13 September 2007, 05:31

I was part of the assessions brief this year (luck of the draw i guess) So i got pretty intimate with this process because of the long plane/car rides with the capt in charge of aviation proponency. basically theres ~150 slots. once the 49th slot is filled(about top 15% of OML that ask for AV) they look at the 50th, if you didnt select ADSO they skip you and hold you for later, if they get a crap load then you will be skipped for good. they also jump to about the 50% mark and take a curtain percent from there, but the ADSO thing still applies. Branching is a complicated process, but from what the assessions guy at camp and the AV proponency guy said, if your not top 15% you should sign it if thats what you know you want to do. Keep in mind that its not a concurrent commitment its 9 years in AV, and if your not prepared for 9 years of Aviation, dont put it at your first

85-ILL

6 December 2007, 19:11

I branched aviation. what patch do I wear to BOLC II?

mjn1317

6 December 2007, 23:31

1st aviation training brigade. aka the flying carrot (torch with wings). dont wear the 1st aviation brigade patch like i saw some LTs doing.

(i figured id post something again for the first time in forever)

Sammy Sandbag

7 December 2007, 07:54

The flying carrot:

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/flightschool/images/shoulder.jpg

85-ILL

11 December 2007, 18:46

Ok one more question about the patch. It just came in the mail and it was smaller than I expected. I just want to make sure I didn't get a mini flying carrot patch does anyone know the measurements. The one I received is roughly 2.5 inches x 1.75 inches

Sammy Sandbag

11 December 2007, 19:00

Skull6

12 December 2007, 12:06

Yeah, they have to keep it small to save on weight! :-D

Associate289

12 December 2007, 12:41

If you're thinking that it would be like the 1st CAV patch, not quite

Ryan

15 January 2008, 19:49

Ok... so my unit got switched to that which I requested and I'm slotted as a Forward Support MEDEVAC Team Leader. My unit tells me they have nothing to do with sending me to flight school and it's all through cadet command. Cadre tell me to wait for someone to contact me. Other cadets have been able to talk to someone from their branch and set up dates for BOLC II however I'd prefer to not wait months to go to flight school ... so my question,

Can anyone point me towards a contact for the/an aviation branch manager?

GIJared

15 January 2008, 20:04

Ryan

15 January 2008, 20:12

Were you trying to become a medevac pilot? Your LTC should have more info on this dude. I don't even know where to start for a guard/reserve MSC pilot. If your LTC doesn't know, they should be able to find out.

I am trying to become a medevac pilot. I was orginally slotted for chinooks so I could branch aviation and then switched to the medevac unit so I didn't get stuck with MSC as a branch. The LTC at my school is under the impression that BOLC dates are automatic, as they are with the active duty cadets. I'll ask him again though because it was a while ago.

85-ILL

18 March 2008, 15:16

A few general questions I have about flight school:

What is the first couple months like in terms of training and being at Ft. Rucker in gerneral? (Weekends/Holidays etc..)

Can I live off post and where do most flight students live?

Is there anything I should study prior to arrival?

Thank you

Sammy Sandbag

18 March 2008, 17:50

A few general questions I have about flight school:

What is the first couple months like in terms of training and being at Ft. Rucker in gerneral? (Weekends/Holidays etc..)

I'll let someone who's been there recently answer that, things have changed too much.

Can I live off post and where do most flight students live?

Yeah, you're a big boy now. Most live off post in Enterprise, that's where I was. It's the larger of the three towns surrounding Rucker, and I'd recommend it over Daleville or Ozark. The BOQ at Rucker is sorry, and this is a PCS move after all, might as well be comfortable.

Is there anything I should study prior to arrival?

Sure you can pick up a book, but you might just confuse yourself more than help without the right instruction. You'll be hit up hard for 5 & 9, and that's just rote memorization. So it might not be a bad idea to find a flash card book for the TH-67. You can find them at Copy Smith, The Hangar, or Wings (google and you'll find them.) But you'll have time for that when you get there.

GIJared

19 March 2008, 00:00

A few general questions I have about flight school:

What is the first couple months like in terms of training and being at Ft. Rucker in gerneral? (Weekends/Holidays etc..)

I'll take it since Sammy passed. I graduated back in early October.
The first couple months are the hardest, in my opinion. It's going to depend on how smart you are, and what kind of study habits you have. I, for one, had little of both. I was pretty overwhelmed for the first few months. Your schedule is pretty much:
Wake up at 4am
Go get grilled in front of the class
Go fly and get graded in the aircraft all the time
30-60 minutes for lunch
4 hours of mind-numbing academics
Come home, eat dinner, study for 2-3 hours, go to bed
Repeat.

The schedule swaps as far as flying afternoons/mornings every week. After the first few months it gets easier. Less academics, more free time, and your ability to memorize things develops quite a bit. You may just as well have an easier time than I did, however.
I'm actually at Ft. Rucker right now TDY...and when I pass by the parking lots where the primary students park, my first thought is: "those poor bastards, thank God I'm done." Fridays were an absolute God-send.

Also, you pretty much get every 4 day weekend, and 2 weeks off at Christmas. Leave when you can.

Skull6

19 March 2008, 18:33

"Make sure the big whirly thing is always above you & the smaller whirly thing is always behind you!"

The only corollary that I've found only applies to shit-hook drivers: "Make sure BOTH big whirly things are always above you!"

Carry on

snake226

19 March 2008, 19:27

A few general questions I have about flight school:

What is the first couple months like in terms of training and being at Ft. Rucker in gerneral? (Weekends/Holidays etc..)

I've been here for about a month and here's how things are looking...Flight school is broken down into blocks of instruction. Right now, in between all of those blocks of instruction you are going to be in a bubble. That means that you will have anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 months of bubble time between phases.

What you'll do during that time is pt in the morning, 1100 formation for about five minutes then be released for the day. If you are on an extended bubble then you might get put onto a detail (funeral, sere etc.) or perform one of the myriad of tasks they have flight students perform to help the cadre as they are few and we are many.
Here's how the first couple of months is looking for me.

JOPD: bout a week of briefings, in processin stuff etc. Pretty boring.
3 week bubble before SERE (during this break I'll do the 2 day dunker course sometime)
SERE--3 weeks of fun in the sun
After SERE my next block of instruction doesn't start for 5 weeks. We'll see what I'll be doing during then...

So basically you're gonna be sitting around a lot so take advantage of your bubble time because like GI said, once you get into a pipeline and start the instruction portion of flight school, there isn't too much down time.

Skull6

20 March 2008, 19:31

Snake, just keep your head about you during SERE. Some of my friends teach &/ or have taught it (I taught the E&E portion at USAFA, where these guys were looking over my shoulder at every step, & I have completed the course, but it was a LONG time ago), & their biggest beef is that some just go through it to "check the box." There's lots of good info & skills communicated during that course. I pray you'll never have to use them, but if you ever should, it'd be best if you had a very solid grasp of not just the motions, but the reasoning behind them as well. (Yes, my speach might sound choppy--I'm trying to stay on the "public-side" of classified info here)

Good luck, Soldier!

snake226

21 March 2008, 10:45

Skull: Yea I'm actually looking forward to it since all that I've heard is that it's some of the best training in the Army. ::pistols:: Bottom line...they can't kill you ::wtfo:: , they can't permenently injure you, it's only 3 weeks. Thanks for the well wishes

Sammy Sandbag

21 March 2008, 12:35

Skull: Yea I'm actually looking forward to it since all that I've heard is that it's some of the best training in the Army.

Indeed, I learned a great deal. And what you will receive will be far more in depth than when I went through.

::pistols:: Bottom line...they can't kill you ::wtfo:: , they can't permenently injure you,

well, not intentionally anyways...

Un4given

21 March 2008, 13:25

I taught the E&E portion at USAFAWas rape (sexual assault, w/e) part of the curriculum at the Acad? ::wtfo:: j/k

::pistols:: Bottom line...they can't kill you ::wtfo:: , they can't permenently injure you,

well, not intentionally anyways...
I love the truth. ;) ::roger::

CombatCady

21 March 2008, 16:33

Intent can often be hard to prove.

Skull6

21 March 2008, 21:16

Threats are just that--threats. When I was cadre, we were allowed to threaten just about anything...anything we thought the students might be "threatened with" (or possibly even have to endure) after a real-life capture by the enemy. Physical injury & inappropriate touching was a definite no-no...& would have most certainly resulted in the offender spending some time in the military's "most beautiful Post"--Leavenworth.

What gets my goat is that some Congress-person's or general's daughter cried about being only THREATENED with rape (no actual contact), which the USAF weenies felt was due cause to kill the entire SERE program at USAFA. The absolute BEST training program that they've ever had (short of the pre-pre-UPD trainng), & they kill it because some freakin cadet princess cries about it. Wonder what would become of her if she'd ever found herself in the actual scenario?! & wonder what those other cadets that didn't & can't go through the program (to include teaching it) in-house will do in the actual scenario as well--because they were denied this training because some B$%Ch couldn't handle a THREAT???!!!

Survival, Evasion, Resistance & Escape. While all four are important skills to learn, it's the "R" that separates the men from the boys, & the ladies from the whiny-arsed female brats, imo.

CombatCady

21 March 2008, 23:29

Word. I'd love to give SERE a shot. I'll probably never get the chance, which is somewhat disappointing. I have a WO1 friend at Rucker right now, and she said it was the best training she's ever had, hands down. Said things weren't exactly the way you describe 'em either, Skull. Things maybe changed a little since you were there? Or maybe the Army program's different. Who knows? Point is, she said it was fantastic, tough, realistic training. Soak it up.

GIJared

22 March 2008, 08:51

It was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done. Granted, I haven't done anything particularly hard in my life :-P. At times, it sucked a lot, but I learned an incredible amount. Not just about SERE techniques, but about myself, leadership under incredible amounts of stress, my personal limits, etc.

I honestly recommend the course to anyone who can get their hands on it. 3 weeks of Airborne school was fun, but 3 weeks of SERE affected my life.

Un4given

22 March 2008, 11:30

CombatCady

22 March 2008, 11:58

It's common knowledge that our enemies don't fuck around with prisoners. That's why I'm swingin' until the end.

Skull6

25 March 2008, 00:48

Cady, I understand. But let's not forget that the first 2 letters stand for Survival & Evasion. Might help you such that you never have to worry about that old "R" word. ;)

Girex

25 March 2008, 06:27

thanks skull6 helps put it more in perspective... i had the same idea as cady... i mean with the whole cutting your head off thing, gotta get away so you dont have to resist, kinda hard to resist a sharp knife with your hands behind your back.

CombatCady

25 March 2008, 07:55

Yeah, Skull. What I'm saying is they won't be taking me, no matter what kinda effort on my part that takes.

snake226

12 May 2008, 22:56

Snake, just keep your head about you during SERE. There's lots of good info & skills communicated during that course.
Good luck, Soldier!

Yea that was good advice skull...It was def a good experience (would never EVER want to go back :o ) and I learned a ton of shit there.

With the linear battle field of today and the possibility of ANYBODY getting rolled up and having to go through captivity, I just wish that all of our soldiers could/would go through it or at least get some of the major teaching points. I guess that if anyone has the opportunity to send one of their soldiers or go themselves I would highly recommend it!

Ryan

11 January 2009, 11:48

snake226

11 January 2009, 12:07

Another flight school question...

I arrived on 7JAN and was immediately put on hold, and I'm not going to start JOPD until what looks like March. Since supposedly we get a 4 day pass just about every month, what are the mileage restrictions? Anything in particular I need to know?

Also is it possibly to request PTDY for hometown recruiting if I'm on hold for an extended period of time? If so does that go through DCo or the place I want to visit?

Any other tips/tricks/suggestions from those currently at Rucker?

Thanks in advance.

Ryan

Ryan,
Hopefully you weren't stuck on that god awful urinalysis detail...heard they had those guys there for 13, 14 hrs. Unnecessary IMO. Anyway, not honestly sure if there are milage restrictions when you are on pass. I know that its 60 miles if you aren't (pretty much preventing you from heading to the beach and staying there if not on one). If you don't mind putting in passes then go for it. If there is even a slight chance that you may get yourself into trouble while anywhere, put in a pass. If you're not prone to being an idiot and driving drunk or getting arrested then I wouldn't.

Bout the hometown recruiting, you can ask at D Co, that's where you'd need to start. However I doubt they'll let you go. Pretty much while you are here no matter how long the hold is, they won't release you to do shit. Can't go to any army school, or anything like that...gay but whatever. ::pistols::

See if you can get put on the SERE detail, I hear those are the most fun. Don't know where you're living but if you are single you can save a boatload of money by getting an apt or townhouse off post. Just bear in mind that once you actually start flight school, either the partying gots to slow down (if you care about selection) or you're gonna struggle.

All other advice for the phases of FS isn't gonna mean that much to you since you have so damn long till you get to em. you're prolly not even gonna see a cockpit till july or august so when you start getting closer to startin stuff I can try and give you advice for that stuff.

Bottom line you are gonna be here for a long ass while, enjoy your hold and don't worry bout studying 5/9 yet cause once it starts you'll get plenty of that. It'll all be worth it tho cause flying (even that little pos TH-67) was by far the most fun thing I've ever done...(by myself that is) 8-)

lemme know if you have any other questions. I'm not sure who else on this board is actually here, most of the AV guys are out in the real army that post on here...

GIJared

11 January 2009, 12:42

Just put in a pass. D co can tell you the mileage limit. Keep in mind if you hop on a flight there is no restriction.

As far as hometown recruiting goes...Yes, it is possible. After graduation I went on hometown recruiting, returned to Rucker and signed out. As far as taking it before flight school, or in the middle...I can only guess that its going to be difficult. Navigating the bureaucracy to get it approved after flight school was ridiculous. I was told no on 3 separate occasions by the chain in Delta Company...everything from its just not possible, not in the regulations, to flat out no until I finally found someone who was willing to sign off on the paperwork.

I recommend you ask, and make sure you are squared away and respectful when you do. I highly recommend you have a letter from the O-5 you intend to work for outlining the dates(this is important) you are needed, and how well you will be put to use, how they are currently shortstaffed, etc. Bring that with you, its good ammunition that proves you're not just trying to disappear for 2 weeks(I also think its required). Read up on the regulations on the program in case anyone tells you that officer's aren't allowed to do it-just be respectful in the fashion in which you correct them.

The bottom line is you are going to look like just another turd of 2000 in flight school who wants something done that requires a minimal amount of effort and paperwork. If you are persistent, squared away, and respectful, you've probably got a shot.

Also keep in mind I graduated in OCT 07. Policies may have changed.

Un4given

11 January 2009, 23:00

Here's some general Army advice... Never accept the answer "no" in the Army. There's always someone that can and will say yes - and can make it happen. School houses are a little different, but there's someone there that can say "yes."

I'm passing up air assault right now because I'm trying to get this company deployed and I'm waiting for my FS school slot. All it took was some mingling at our BDE Christmas Ball and I came across the right NCO with the special know-how and AA would've been too easy. Hell, probably even Pathfinder if I really wanted it; he could've gotten a slot for that. It's all about connections and being known and loved. ;)

Skull6

12 January 2009, 11:55

...It's all about connections and being known and loved. ;)

You're still having issues with that last part, ain't ya? ;)

Un4given

12 January 2009, 20:43

Mention my name... Champagne rains from the heavens and angels begin to sing

Skull6

13 January 2009, 10:29

Then the lightning strikes--numerous times? ;)

Un4given

13 January 2009, 22:01

Yes... On everyone else. Everyone. Except me. Because Champagne is raining on me.

Skull6

14 January 2009, 18:51

Un4, you ever read the book titled "The Hopeless Megalomaniac"?

I didn't think so. ;)

Un4given

14 January 2009, 22:13

Un4, you ever read the book titled "The Hopeless Megalomaniac"?

I didn't think so. ;)
No, but the song by Incubus, "Megalomaniac (http://elinkcash.com/megalomaniac)" is a bad ass song. :)

Sidenote... Some claim it's about George W. Bush - lol I'd say the dude is fairly successful, he was the leader of the most powerful nation for not one, but TWO terms consecutively.

rkam98

17 January 2009, 15:06

I guess anything is possible when you are born into one of the most poewrful political families of the past 70 years or so. Although i am not a staunch Bush hater by any means, I do think that his bio is not strong. He had a lot of things pretty much handed to him, Academic entry, Business, political capital, etc. In that sense Obama is more "American" or more in line with the American story ( I really wont miss this guy, he was in many ways a Sarah Palin like President). However I think Obama's story is greatley blown out of proportion (Once he beat that Bitch Hillary all he had to do was not Burn an American Flag and he was pretty mucch set, largley due to Bush). Oh well, I am near DC and everyone is going Obama crazy, Radio Stations are now Obama FM, every one has a change you can believe in shirt, and people are braving extreme cold to hear him speak (in Baltimore today and his inaguratrion in DC).

Ryan

29 January 2009, 12:46

Alright... so I've been selected for a funeral detail... anybody know what I'm going to be doing?

snake226

29 January 2009, 15:59

::no-go:: That sucks. My buddy is on that detail. Basically when you have no funeral to go to I think you guys practice during the day sometimes. And then when you have a funeral to go to you go participate. I think we're responsible for all of alabama and part of florida but I could be wrong. When's your start date?

Ryan

29 January 2009, 16:39

I found out today that I start tomorrow. I suppose this means I won't be doing JOPD for a while.

Un4given

29 January 2009, 22:27

Ryan, do you have your class dates yet?

I was finally put into ATRRS today for an April class - it's about damn time. What does a CPT do when on hold? I'm not above details, but I'm curious.

Ryan

29 January 2009, 22:35

Ryan, do you have your class dates yet?

I was finally put into ATRRS today for an April class - it's about damn time. What does a CPT do when on hold? I'm not above details, but I'm curious.

My class date *was* 7 January... after arriving I've been told I wont start JOPD until March, but supposedly now JOPD and BOLC IIIA are all rolled in to one. Dunker slots are available weekly/biweekly as walk-ons and SERE shouldn't be an issue as there is a new class every week, but I haven't heard anything about that either. I'm not sure as a CPT but I think I read a memo somewhere that said the "Class Leader" goes to the highest ranking student. Not sure if it depends on phase or what not, snake probably knows better than I. Either way, take your time getting comfortable. I've been 'in-processing' for the past month. I'll let you know as I go along, but right now things are verrry slow.

snake226

29 January 2009, 22:53

Ryan, that sucks that you aren't even starting JOPD till march. But I've talked to LTs down here who aren't even gonna start IERW till 5-6 months after they get here. Thats outrageous. Are you active or guard? Just curious. I guess there's just nothin you can do about it...which is uber stupid :evil: But keep trucking.

Un4. CPTs get pushed through here pretty quick as they obviously want them back out into the real army and/or into CCC. But for the most part they are only on hold for 1-2 weeks between phases. CPTs that I started here with are nearing completion with 60s and I've got about 2-3 months before I start so that tells you somethin. But Ryan is right obviously the highest ranking is the class leader or air mission commander or SRO at SERE school (which would be quite shitty i think). No big deal tho.

You know what you want to fly? Either of you?

Ryan

29 January 2009, 23:23

I'm NY NG... which is why it sucks more because I interrupted my phd program to come here, and now I'm wasting time. Such is the cost of flight school. My unit is MEDEVAC so I'll be on the Blackhawk which is great. I just can't wait to get started. Patience is a virtue or something.

Un4given

30 January 2009, 20:27

Ryan

30 January 2009, 20:47

Interesting stuff... Thanks Ryan and Snake.

My ATRRS is showing me for April in IERW.

Speaking of, can someone layout all the phases/classes required and in what order (and if they can possible be taken out of order)?

Anywho... To answer your question, I'm trying for 64's. Figured I'd get as much time behind the cyclic on those and then go for phase 2 of my plan - assess for 160.

From what I gather:

JOPD
BOLC IIIA
IERW
Advanced Aircraft
BOLC IIIB

must be done in that order.

Dunker and SERE I believe have to be done before IIIA but SERE might have to be after JOPD... not sure again. Dunker can be scheduled as soon as you take the swim test and there are seats.

Un4given

30 January 2009, 21:12

snake226

31 January 2009, 00:17

Thanks. I'm tracking the IERW and Adv A/C but what's the difference between BOLCIIIa/b? And what's JOPD? I talked to branch and they said I don't have to go through OBC and that I should wait on CCC until after I'm in a unit for a little bit to get some hours in.

So how the heck is it I'm slotted for IERW in April and there's two sections before it? I could see me being exempt from BOLCIIIa if it's essentially OBC. I'm sure it's essentially the same part of TOBC with stuff like OERs/NCOERs, FLIPLs, CSDP, etc, the basics of officership. I dunno, that's just what I think by the BM saying I don't go to OBC.

Sorry, but I don't think you're gonna be exempt from IIIA or even JOPD because all the CPTs we have here are branch transfers and they had to do all that stuff. JOPD is just basically a week of dumb shit about aviation and fort rucker. Waste of time. (junior officer professional development I think).

BOLC IIIA is again a series of classes that are completely brain dumped the second you take the ridiculous tests for them. Stuff that you will not even realize the importance of until at the end of flight school. Piss poor planning on when to have the classes. ::no-go:: I haven't done IIIB so I can't speak as well to that.

You are slotted for IERW because that's just what it says. We are our own little world down here and once you get here on your report date, you'll be told all your starting dates for SERE, IERW and all that mumbojumbo. :-?

Un4given

31 January 2009, 12:42

That makes sense. I'm just going off of what the BM said at HRC.

Wes

1 February 2009, 00:14

Since I'm being lazy: What is the MOS for the guys that are door gunners on Blackhawks? UH-60 mechanic or what?

Un4given

1 February 2009, 10:04

I would think 15T or 15M but probably depends on the mission the UH60 serves. On CatFishAir it was the crew chiefs manning the doors so I would imagine 15T's.

Ryan

4 March 2009, 12:36

Well I finally start Phase Uno on the 16th... (JOPD, IIIa, SERE)

Snake, is there anything I need to know before going into IIIa?

Thanks.

snake226

4 March 2009, 13:44

Shit man, how long have you been here and you haven't even done JOPD IIIa or SERE?!?!? Crazy. Is that the normal wait now for guys getting here? I talked to a LT today who has been here since august and isn't starting primary until june. Crazy ::no-go::

Anywho, no there is absolutely nothing you need to know or study for before starting IIIa. I'm assuming you don't have an IERW date yet. Try not to fall asleep in IIIa classes. Honestly, you are going to flush most if not all of that information once you start primary cause there's a shitton of stuff to know.

Oh, and don't let anyone scare you into studying 5/9 this early. Wait till about 1-2 weeks before you start areomed to really hit that stuff hard or you're going to get burnt out. You've got 5 months of TH-67 stuff, don't kill yourself to know it all right now.

Hope that helps, lemme know if you have any more ??s

Ryan

9 April 2009, 16:38

So I start SERE Monday, any unclassified advice you can give?

Also, I heard from someone who just got out of SERE and he's got an IERW date of mid-June. A two month hold doesn't seem so bad. If that's the case I should start aeromed by mid-July. I just hope I don't get put back on FUNDET.

snake226

9 April 2009, 17:27

Ryan,

First, I hope you do get a date for IERW as soon as june. That'd be good cause you are right, 2 months isn't that bad of a hold after sere.

First off, is it longer than it used to be? I know they were planning on making it longer but wasn't sure if they had yet. It'd be good if it was, more good training than I got which would be good for you. ::roger::

Advice:

When I went, I wish I had a fucking deck of cards. Now bear in mind that I went about a year ago and don't know how badly you would get in trouble or whatever for bringing that but I'd take a deck of cards with if I had to go back and do it over again. When you guys go to the range, those evenings are slow so you'll be :-D . Just don't advertise that you have them...

Don't kill yourself trying to break it down into when certain stuff is going to happen. Part of the 'fun' is that you don't really have a clear timeline (just rumors that you've heard) so don't worry too much about that.

If you can, have someone give you a ride to wherever you are meeting the morning of the shakedown (guthrie field I think was where we met). That way you won't be leaving your car out in the alabama sun and heat for all that time.

Just don't be stressed about it. It's not that bad and it's great training. Bottom line have as much fun as you can and use the time in close proximity to get to know your fellow classmate cause you'll probably be going through the rest of flight school with some of them.

Lemme know if you have any other specific queries and if I think of anything else I'll let you know.

Un4given

10 April 2009, 11:20

I just arrived in Enterprise. Been on Rucker briefly, but other than that staying in a Hotel. I don't report until the 28th, so I have some leave I'm using.

Sammy emailed me about SERE but I don't know if it's anything I can post on here - not sure.

So what's the first week like? I'll take it as it comes to me, but always curious. Looking for a house now. Wife refuses to live on post, don't blame her, but we may have found a place. The house belongs to a retired COL (wife said he said he was the ex-DCO of the school).

Who all is here? Maybe we can BBQ sometime.

snake226

10 April 2009, 16:05

Sammy emailed me about SERE but I don't know if it's anything I can post on here - not sure.

Yea, who knows. Better safe than sorry I guess but honestly it's probably changed a lot since I went through and it's probably changed a whole helluva lot since sammy did. But you're gonna have a while to wait on that. Really there's only certain stuff that's actually classified and the rest is just stuff that they really don't want getting out (training timelines etc.) cause it messes up their whole mystique.

Wife refuses to live on post,
::roger::

That will be a good decision in the long run. We live on post and other than my house being the shittiest house in the world it's been nice to actually be on post. Rucker is an insanely safe post and living is close proximity to buses to flight line and heliports is nice. I would just say don't try and find a place that is too terribly far away cause driving back and forth 2-3 times a day will get gayer than a guy giving you an oil masssage. ::no-go::

First week was pretty much running around making sure I had all my records, dental, physical all that stuff taken care of. I hadn't been in the army long so that might be easier for you. And you'll probably get put on a detail cause last I heard they were having a pretty long hold.

Just settle in and take advantage of being on hold would be my advice cause it can be pretty chill if you don't have a detail.

I know that ryan is here but i'm not sure if there's anybody else actually here. When you settle in we can grab some mellow mushroom or somethin like that.

PM me if you need any help moving in or have any other ? bout rucker. Welcome to the shittiest little corner of alabama.

Un4given

10 April 2009, 21:04

Well we found a house in Cotten Creek. Nice neighborhood, well within budget and not far from post. It's owned by a retired COL and from what my wife described him, he's an ex-DCO of the school. Could be helpful in the career? lol

Most of my shit (files) is good to go. I just have to ensure that it made it here from Carson - just a phone call away. Too easy.

I can take a detail like a champ, but in the real Army CPT's don't get handed details all that often; however, this is TRADOC, we'll see.

Mellow Mushroom? Pizza!?

Ryan

10 April 2009, 21:22

UN4,

I think you might be in luck... I think the wait for JOPD got cut way down... the guy who lives across the street was only here for a week or two and has already started. I think the mess had something to do with the abundance of West Pointers coming in during the summer. The bad news is you'll probably be in the second second platoon hold for quite a while waiting for an IERW slot.

Also, I guess there are quite a few CPTs going through SERE (~12 in my class) which should help you out. I'm hearing that its because CPTs who went through flight school back in the day where SERE wasn't mandatory are now doing the CCC and are required to go. In fact our instructor disappeared after week two of BOLC III because he had started SERE.

Be ready to be bored to death with JOPD/BOLC III. The only thing to get excited about is the CW4 who does the aviation proponency class... he should be a stand up comedian.

Un4given

10 April 2009, 21:30

Yeah, I read that on the HRC site about CPTs REQUIRED to go to it for CCC. So I figured there might be a few more for TDY or something.

BM told me I don't go to OBC (BOLC, whatever the fuck it's called these days) but I'll see once I actually in process.

GIJared

11 April 2009, 01:56

Well congrats on finally getting to Rucker and try not to choke yourself on some of the absolute BS that goes on. Good luck with SERE school, there are some times when it really sucks but overall its a great course. I honestly have nothing but good things to say about it, would do it over again in a heart beat, and would even volunteer for the longer course they may offer later.

snake226

11 April 2009, 10:46

would even volunteer for the longer course they may offer later.

I THINK that's the one Ryan is going to but I'm not sure. I know they have been planning on standing up the extra phase and I remember hearing that it was going into effect sometime early this year. Who knows but I'd go back to do that part too.

I think the mess had something to do with the abundance of West Pointers coming in during the summer. The bad news is you'll probably be in the second second platoon hold for quite a while waiting for an IERW slot.

Haha, yea, this story cracks me up. Fucking west point. They sent all of their aviation 2LT to flight school at once (I don't actually know how many but it was a lot) and the officials at WP had told them that they would all start immediately. Naturally, when they all got here Rucker wasn't having any of it. :-D Just makes me laugh because the west pointers I talked to were SO shocked that they didn't just fly right into a slot and start classes when we've got people who'd been waiting months for a date. Fucking entitlement.

Mellow Mushroom? Pizza!?

Haha, yea. You'll find that there really isn't anywhere good to eat for the most part here. Or maybe I was just spoiled by where I came from.

Un4given

11 April 2009, 12:19

You'll soon see that there's more non-WPs in the Army than WPs. Your Army track record means more in the long run and THAT is what will get you promoted.

Most WPs have been relatively cool and don't throw it around as I was expecting. Heh, actually, all but one that I know is getting out or got out after their 5 year commitment.

Anywho, there's a really good BBQ place off of 27 (Lee) right near where we live. It's delicious! Try it! Horrible service, though.

I274

13 April 2009, 12:13

so UN4, when are you going to change your avatar from a truck to something aviation-wise.
(but unless you get apache, you're still a transporter...)
;-)

Skull6

13 April 2009, 12:30

Me thinks Un4 is secretly hoping to be assigned a skycrane!

Cerebroden

13 April 2009, 21:34

so UN4, when are you going to change your avatar from a truck to something aviation-wise.
(but unless you get apache, you're still a transporter...)
;-)

58's 8-)

snake226

13 April 2009, 21:50

but unless you get apache, you're still a transporter...

LOL! LMTV isn't quite the same as a blackhawk...haha :-D

GIJared

13 April 2009, 22:48

Anywho, there's a really good BBQ place off of 27 (Lee) right near where we live. It's delicious! Try it! Horrible service, though.

There's a place in downtown enterprise basically run out of some dude's house named Big Daddy's BBQ I believe...its absolutely incredible. The pulled pork potato is the most amazing and tasty creation ever. I don't even know what place you're talking about, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't come close.

Un4given

14 April 2009, 10:17

The place I'm talking about is called Creek Side BBQ. It was awesome, but I'm not going to knock your place till I've tried it. Where's it at?

Hit me up sometime and we'll do some BBQs. I love this because in the Springs there's not tons of BBQs around like there are here.

Skull6

14 April 2009, 17:09

Notice Un4's omission in responding to my "skycrane" dig!

I KNEW IT!!! :D

Un4given

14 April 2009, 20:11

Haha I thought I posted a quickie on that... I said "I want apaches" and that's all I posted, guess I didn't though. But yeah, I want attack. Just kinda tired of being at the other end of the barrel.

Skull6

15 April 2009, 13:02

"Say nomo, say nomo...a wink's as good as a nod to a blind bat."

:D

Sammy Sandbag

17 April 2009, 09:14

Also, I guess there are quite a few CPTs going through SERE (~12 in my class) which should help you out. I'm hearing that its because CPTs who went through flight school back in the day where SERE wasn't mandatory are now doing the CCC and are required to go.

SERE has always been mandatory, ever since they stood it up at Rucker a while ago. But it was SERE B+, not C. If I ever make it back to Rucker for CCC, I will have to go though again just for the resistance lab upgrade to C-level.

You'll soon see that there's more non-WPs in the Army than WPs.

And you will soon learn that there are more WP in Army Aviation than non-WPs.... (I was one of 2 out of 50 in my IERW class)

There's a place in downtown enterprise basically run out of some dude's house named Big Daddy's BBQ I believe...its absolutely incredible. The pulled pork potato is the most amazing and tasty creation ever. I don't even know what place you're talking about, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't come close.

Big Daddy's FTW. Glad to see that place still operating, it was a weekly ritual during BCS. Man that hot sauce is really hot!

Haha I thought I posted a quickie on that... I said "I want apaches" and that's all I posted, guess I didn't though. But yeah, I want attack. Just kinda tired of being at the other end of the barrel.

Ah, a real man eh?

Un4given

17 April 2009, 11:58

Ah, a real man eh?
Fuck, yes. One of my buddies that went through (could've just been his class) said that the 64s were pretty much filled with the lower end of the OML and that the 47s were from the higher.

Any light on this?

11 more days of leave until I report. In the meantime, the house is awesome and the weather is great. Hit up Destin Beach yesterday. w00t

GIJared

17 April 2009, 14:55

Ah, a real man eh?
Fuck, yes. One of my buddies that went through (could've just been his class) said that the 64s were pretty much filled with the lower end of the OML and that the 47s were from the higher.

Any light on this?

w00t

It was true when I went through, and still is from what I understand. There are fewer slots for 47's, (and 58's I believe), so they are more competitive to get. Now, while there were people at the top of my class who picked 64's, were a lot of people who were forced into 60's and 64's in my class and others.

snake226

17 April 2009, 15:57

One of my buddies that went through (could've just been his class) said that the 64s were pretty much filled with the lower end of the OML and that the 47s were from the higher.

Any light on this?

That's how it was when I selected a few months ago. The num one guy selected 64s but is now regretting it cause he's gonna leave here as a cpt cause the hold is ridiculous right now. Not necessarily the right reason to make a choice but its something to think about when you compare a 7-9 month hold for 64s to a 1-3 month hold for 60s and 47s. Here's how the commissioned guys selected in my class. Bear in mind every class is different.

1-64
2-60
3-60
4-47
5-58

rest were 64s and 60s.

UN4, enjoy the weather cause its gonna start getting shitty... :evil:

Un4given

19 April 2009, 10:54

lol So I'm told!

Thanks for the insight on that... I'm already behind the power curve so I really have to take a look at "holds"

So is there a Warrant/Officer mix in each class?

snake226

19 April 2009, 11:45

So is there a Warrant/Officer mix in each class?

Yea, its prolly different in each class but they are usually split pretty evenly between the commissioned and warrants. Same goes for guard and active. My classes have all been pretty evenly split but I've heard of some nearly all guard classes. It'll depend.

About the holds. First, it definitely should not be the deciding factor in choosing your airframe. And cpts usually get pushed through a little faster then the rest of us like I've said before. So you prolly won't be sittin around as long.

Un4given

27 May 2009, 18:17

HOST is some crazy stuff, eh?

Skull6

27 May 2009, 19:37

...Now, while there were people at the top of my class who picked 64's, were a lot of people who were forced into 60's and 64's in my class and others.

Folks are whining about being "forced" into -64s?!

Here's a 120mm DU "tissue" from one who wanted -64s to begin with. ("There, but for a few too many pissed off O-7+s, go I...")

LOL. He works in mysterious ways, though. Nuthin but luv for my tracked steel beast now. My only regret is that they wouldn't give me cannister rounds in DS! (& my friends in my year-group who went rotor-head are STILL jealous of my 3-ton GUN, & I'm out already!!!) :D

"Here's a 1-inch wide, 3-foot long DU toothpick...open WIDE, MF!" {evil smiley}

snake226

27 May 2009, 22:45

HOST is some crazy stuff, eh?

Haha! yea, I had a blast doing that. I'd go back and do it again. Oh yea, yet another reason I'm glad I don't fly 64s...they tell you what the sink rate is in one of them babies? In-fucking-sane. :-x

Plus I was talking to my buddy who was telling me all the terrible things that could happen to you if you try and jettison the canopy in the water and all that fun stuff. Eeek!

Outta here by mid AUG hopefully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::roger:: :-D :-D ::roger:: 8) 8)

Sammy Sandbag

28 May 2009, 08:02

snake226

28 May 2009, 10:41

You're determining helicopter choices by the rate they sink in water

Absolutely not...just a freaky tidbit relating to Un4 going to dunker.

And how sad would you be without your mail??? VERY important 8)

Oh and quite jealous about the whole being able to fly without your tail rotor thing...

Skull6

28 May 2009, 18:06

I once saw a 47 pilot wear a T-shirt with "TWO fans of FREEDOM" written boldy on the front.

Chuck Norris might be sad to not get mail, but not Sammy. I hear he's quite comfortable with the fact that nobody loves him.

(Domer's Mom don't count. That's LUST, not LOVE!!!)

:D

Un4given

28 May 2009, 19:59

You're determining helicopter choices by the rate they sink in water? YGBFKM. How bout the fact that we can jettison our canopies (which you do prior to ditching,) not having to kick a door out of the way, get clocked in the head by the other 15 poor souls trying to get out as well, their flying debris, no such thing as cross cabin, or the fact that how often do you do over water training to begin with, or even that the 64 has a longer endurance without having to strap on external tanks. The AH64 is by far the most survivable airframe in the Army's inventory.

Go guns or go home.

But I still like you lift guys, I gotta get my mail someway. :-P Kidding, all the respect for some of the dusty tight ass LZs I've seen hawk drivers cram into.

YGBFKM, oh associate's faggoty ass would love that one! Ha!

I'm actually doing something a little different... I'm having the airframes bid on me. Why should someone of my caliber have to select and fight for an airframe when they should be begging for me to fly them? So that's how I'm doing it.

Sammy, do you want a letter?

snake226

28 May 2009, 21:31

I'm actually doing something a little different... I'm having the airframes bid on me. Why should someone of my caliber have to select and fight for an airframe when they should be begging for me to fly them? So that's how I'm doing it.

HAHA!!! That's fucking awesome! :-D :-D
But no matter what, even if you get an airframe you didn't initially want, by the end of your advanced course you'll probably have been 'brainwashed' into loving it.

At least that's what happened to a couple of my buddies and a couple guys in my hawk class. Die hard guns...now they supposedly wouldn't trade the hawk for anything.

Un4given

29 May 2009, 05:54

So I've heard that. But in the same breath they said those that want Apaches most likely still won't be happy if they get Chinooks. So there's still a possibility I get pissed beyond all belief. *shrugs*

Sammy Sandbag

30 May 2009, 02:21

Let's just say 7 months (or is it 8 now... fugit) has done nothing but reaffirm my choice in airframes (although I did choose between Apache... and Apache.) After actually seeing what the other platforms do over here, it becomes clear. Although sometimes when I've been turning left over a target for hours on end, and I hear the hawks going home... no.. I'm still glad. But we can't Dutch rudder each other in the cockpit or haul around a mini-fridge (full size if you're a hooker), so it's a toss up.

Un4given

30 May 2009, 12:16

Every 64 pilot I met out here is the cockiest, most arrogant dudes I've ever met. I love it.

snake226

30 May 2009, 14:34

Every 64 pilot I met out here is the cockiest, most arrogant dudes I've ever met. I love it.

HAHA! Indeed. Although one of my best friends from here is gonna be a 64 guy so I can't make fun of em too much...wait, yes I can.

Ryan

25 July 2009, 22:42

Cerebroden

26 July 2009, 02:37

Every 64 pilot I met out here is the cockiest, most arrogant dudes I've ever met. I love it.

how many -58 pilots have you met?

TheTokenGook

27 July 2009, 14:22

Every 64 pilot I met out here is the cockiest, most arrogant dudes I've ever met. I love it.

I'm guessing you've never met an AF or Navy fighter pilot?

Skull6

27 July 2009, 21:37

AF fighter pilots don't actually fly.

The earth repels them & their humongous egos, as they are not natural.

Un4given

3 August 2009, 11:19

So...I start primary on Monday. I know all the limits from the flash cards. I know the majority of the EPs. Am I really going to have to know all of 5 & 9? Anything else I should worry about? I suppose I find out soon enough.

Also, how much flying do we do on weekends? I booked my Labor Day and Thanksgiving flights already and I'm hoping it won't interfere.

Also, does anybody know anything about them getting rid of BOLC IIIa? If that's the case I should be outta here by May if I get bumped up in the 60 course, which I should because we're deploying December 2011. It's only been 7 months...only...and I'm going crazy. AL sucks.
Ryan, PM me bro.

You meant the IIIB course, right? If you start primary then you already completed IIIA and IIIB is the only one I know of that they're talking about moving. I say moving because the talk is just moving it up and combining it with IIIA. Not sure what the deal is.

Just finished up with SERE and I should be starting primary this week - errr, I think.

Jake the Skillet

3 August 2009, 18:41

Every 64 pilot I met out here is the cockiest, most arrogant dudes I've ever met. I love it.

how many -58 pilots have you met?

Agreed on the -58's

No further comment

Un4given

3 August 2009, 19:52

Every 64 pilot I met out here is the cockiest, most arrogant dudes I've ever met. I love it.

how many -58 pilots have you met?

Agreed on the -58's

No further comment
But a 58 pilot boasting about how bad their shit is compared to a 64 is like a 113 operator talking shit to an M1 operator.

Regardless... If I get slotted 58s then it will become a bad ass piece of equipment. Heck, even Chinooks would be.

snake226

4 August 2009, 13:06

Ryan, PM me bro.

You meant the IIIB course, right? If you start primary then you already completed IIIA and IIIB is the only one I know of that they're talking about moving. I say moving because the talk is just moving it up and combining it with IIIA. Not sure what the deal is.

Just finished up with SERE and I should be starting primary this week - errr, I think.

Yea, sorry I was outta it for a little bit. Driving across the country.

You can PM me Ryan if you want any input on what to study but since you have started primary you prolly got it plenty from your IP. What flight are you in btw?

Un4, congrats on getting though sere. think it was good training?

I was in the second to last IIIB class. I'm quite jealous that you guys won't have to go through it. Wasn't too useful.

Ryan

5 August 2009, 11:45

You meant the IIIB course, right? If you start primary then you already completed IIIA and IIIB is the only one I know of that they're talking about moving. I say moving because the talk is just moving it up and combining it with IIIA. Not sure what the deal is.

Durrr... I meant 3b. Last I heard the final 3b class is either finishing or finished, that was from the Co Cdr at PT.

Chicken or beef? I hope SERE was a blast.

Snake, I'm in Charger flight... the flight commander (Mr. Pruit) seemed very non-threatening at our in-brief, and I have yet to meet the IP. Got any intel?

Nickel ride is next Thursday, and I can't wait.

Un4given

5 August 2009, 22:35

SERE was phenomenal training... Thank God I do not have to do it again. :) It's crazy how much you think you know until you go through it.

I wanted beef... I'll leave it at that.

So, how do stick buddies work? Are they designated or do you select?

Ryan

6 August 2009, 07:30

For primary, it's based on weight. They said we might have some input when switch over to instruments. Since me and my stick buddy both weigh ~150, I'd imagine our IP is hovering around the heavier end of the scale.

GIJared

10 August 2009, 00:12

Cerebroden

10 August 2009, 11:54

you get all the sand out?

Skull6

10 August 2009, 20:32

I hear the SF-types absolutely live the Chinooks...

& the poofers who fly them! :-D

Un4given

11 August 2009, 18:11

Regardless... If I get slotted 58s then it will become a bad ass piece of equipment. Heck, even Chinooks would be.

Even a Chinook would be?

There's been way too much Chinook bashing in this thread. Spend some time in OEF and see what we do. Typically, yes, we perform resupply missions where we log 6-8 hours daily supplying FOBS. 90% of the FOBS in our AO would be completely worthless without Chinooks, they simply cannot be supplied by ground at all, or the cost via ground would be far too severe. This war would be either over or completely ineffective without Chinooks, that's the flat out truth.

Second, any time there's an air assault or deliberate op, its Chinooks. Blackhawks don't play, they can't, and thats the bottom line. No other airframe in country has the power and capacity to put crunchies on the ground near their targets than us. No other airframe(in the Army at least)can fly as fast us, fly as far as us, fly as high as us, carry as much, and climb as quickly as us. We can even land in the water and shutdown and float, though we don't have to worry about that out here.

I picked Chinooks, and I'm really glad I did.
You realize that a school bus is longer, sits higher, can carry more pax, has a louder horn, a cool little flashy stop sign and can drive further per tank of gas than my Audi? My Audi is still more of a bad ass. Maybe maneuverability is my desire? Maybe firepower? Maybe the sheer challenge of doing something that requires such skill and grace intrigues me?

lol I realize that all birds have their dedicated missions and to say one is better than the other is pointless because a Chinook is better than an Apache at carrying shit and the Apache better than the Chinook at locking on and blowing shit up. When I call an aircraft bad ass it's simply because I like it. Although I'm sure if Chinooks were what I got then I would learn to love them as well... Just as I was pissed when I got TC and enjoyed it.

TheTokenGook

11 August 2009, 20:19

I'm a fan of the Apache myself, but the -47G and the version picked by the USAF for its CSAR-X contract (now cancelled) is pretty bad ass.

Un4given

12 August 2009, 21:23

Seen some pics, not a bad airframe - what's the additional specs w/the G?

TheTokenGook

14 August 2009, 20:18

Seen some pics, not a bad airframe - what's the additional specs w/the G?

Not sure on the specifics actually. I had heard at one time that the CSAR-X would be designated HH-47H. I heard many times that it would be an improvement over the G, without specific details. It could honestly be just an AF version of the G. You know, same airframe, but with the addition of cable TV, leather reclining seats, etc...

But its hard to tell what the how the production version would differ from Army G models, especially since the contract has been cancelled.

Sammy Sandbag

17 August 2009, 06:04

Un4given

17 August 2009, 06:58

Dude you royally fucked up the quotations in that last post. ha

Ryan

17 August 2009, 16:51

Snake, I'm in Charger flight... the flight commander (Mr. Pruit) seemed very non-threatening at our in-brief, and I have yet to meet the IP. Got any intel?

Nickel ride is next Thursday, and I can't wait.

I was in Charger flight, although I can't remember who the flight commander or really any of the IPs were (this was nearly 6 years ago.) If he's still there, my IP was a big (fat) former Chinook pilot who sat on the front row. Had a real quirky sense of humor, always telling jokes. Wish I could remember his name, but consider yourself lucky if you get him.

I'm not sure...I know they switch around and what not, I suppose he could be a FC for another flight as well. Apparently there is a lot going on at Cairns right now, they just refurbished a bunch of classrooms and brought them up to the 20th century, ha. I think they're also building a new building for IERW and they're going to move all the academics there instead of bussing you back and forth. It's supposed to have a locker room and stuff too. Of course it won't be done until I'm long gone, but w/e.

PS morning flight line sucks. I got to the parking lot at 0430 and the bus didn't show up until 0450. That's precious sleep time I'm missing out on.

Un4given

17 August 2009, 19:28

Ouch, that sucks!

Yeah, they won't quit talking about the refurbed rooms out at Cairns. They're nothing great, so I can't imagine what they used to look like. lol

snake226

18 August 2009, 00:30

PS morning flight line sucks. I got to the parking lot at 0430 and the bus didn't show up until 0450. That's precious sleep time I'm missing out on.

One of the things that was nice about living on post...extra 20 min or so of sleepy time. I got pretty good at totally zonking out from the bus stop to the gate at cairns tho. ::roger::

PS, can you hover yet ryan?

One of my favorite things my primary IP said to me while I was doing everything in my power to keep that damn thing steady during week 1 or 2... :-x

"You know, I can teach a monkey to fly. Hovering and flying isn't hard at all."

Thanks Mr. Mitchell. :evil:

Ryan

18 August 2009, 13:09

Eh... I suck at flying.

I can keep sort of keep it straight and level, but anything other than that and I hear "I have the controls" from the IP. I hope to god he doesn't decide to have a heart attack anytime soon otherwise I'm doing straight and level until I run out of fuel.

Yeah the hover needs work too...I usually end up in an unintended takeoff in a direction other than 12...at least I'm making the man earn his money.

Alright...academics suck, hopefully we get out early.

Un4given

18 August 2009, 19:18

Heh, sorry to hear that. We had CPT today. So far academics is coming easily to me. I can memorize the stuff no probs, but we'll see when I meet the IP. Plus, they say some are stellar in academics and suck with the sticks, and vice versa.

Skull6

19 August 2009, 22:38

Un4, memorize "actions & their associated reactions." As in "if I push the cyclic this way, while pulling up on the collective, the craft will respond by ______________ {fill in the blank}." (This mental/ physical "game" applies similarly in flying fixed-wing, with the exceptions of 1) the vertical dimension is comprised of merely "nose-up," "nose-down," lift is away from the top surface of the wing in relation to the seated pilot" & "gravity still works" & 2) the forward speeds of fixed-wing flight can be exponentially greater, depending on the aircraft.

No two airframs are exactly the same. Treat any helo you fly as a woman--get to know her & all her nuances, so that you can end up playing her as a virtuoso on a violin...

you'll be glad you did. ;)

snake226

20 August 2009, 18:49

Eh... I suck at flying.

I can keep sort of keep it straight and level, but anything other than that and I hear "I have the controls" from the IP. I hope to god he doesn't decide to have a heart attack anytime soon otherwise I'm doing straight and level until I run out of fuel.

AHAHA!!! :-D That made me laugh. Brought me back some funny memories. You'll get it, just don't get down on yourself.

actions & their associated reactions

Yea, 'chair flying' as it is called by many of the IPs here. It is helpful especially on maneuvers where you have to do a lot of stuff...autos, run on landings etc...

Ryan

21 August 2009, 16:31

Un4given

21 August 2009, 21:22

At this rate, I'll never get it. We flew once this week. Monday we're supposed to be at 14 hours and we have 7.1 right now. 4.5 of which is on the sim.

Un4, who do you have for systems? There is a little bickering going on between the two instructors, kind of funny.
Yeah, VFR + this shoddy weather would probably leave you grounded lol! Are y'all flying Saturday?

We had Mr C. What ya mean bickering between who?

snake226

21 August 2009, 23:56

Yeah, VFR + this shoddy weather

?? :-?

I found that the IPs, even in FS XXI, were extremely reluctant to fly us in even marginal weather. Even if we were legal, there just isn't any training value when you're so worried about the ceiling dropping down on you. That sucks tho Ryan cause it's tough to fly for 3 days then have a bunch off. Feel like you lose everything you learned... Don't stress too much, it's gonna happen throughout flight school cause the wx is just ridiculous.

Ryan

22 August 2009, 00:43

We had C. What ya mean bickering between who?

Between C and K... they just had some issues with the way the pre-test prep was being handled. No biggie it was just funny. They would talk to us behind the other guys back and stuff like that. Very unprofessional but amusing.

And no, luckily we won't be in on Saturday. Not yet anyway. If afternoons go smoothly next week we should be able to catch up pretty quick. We've done just about the whole primary's worth of table talk this week. Yikes.