AMEDD OBC

[PRM16Tiddle]

So I got to Ft. Sam Houston yesterday for OBC. We are having a welcome pizza party tonight, and I guess the fun starts tomorrow..
I'm in a hotel downtown (until they move me on post in about a week) it's about a mile from the riverwalk, right nextdoor to a "really nice mall," and about a half mile from the alamo.
I got into the hotel around 6 last night, after driving since 4am, so I didnt get to do anything yesterday, I think I'm gonna walk over to this alamo thing and see what thats all about ;-) either that...or go shopping!! ::ooops::
anyways...I know theres atleast one person on here who has gone through this course...any tips would be greatly appreciated!!!!

~Tiddle

[armynurseboy]

The hardest part about AMEDD OBC is staying awake in class.... :D

Seriously, our OBC is mostly class work with a little bit of field stuff (different than other branchs). If you're an ROTC grad, you are already ahead of the power curve as AMEDD OBC is designed to take Docs and Nurses from off the street and give them enough knowledge about the Army that they don't look stupid (most of the time).

[Un4given]

Good God that sounds boring. lol best of luck to ya :)

[PRM16Tiddle]

yeah, I was thinking that...I was looking at some of the classes and it seems like rotc all over again. but we do go out to the field for 3 weeks (I heard thats new....maybe? I dont know..)

[Sammy Sandbag]

Yeah, but if you're a guy, the male to female ratio is outstanding.

[armynurseboy]

Yeah, but if you're a guy, the male to female ratio is outstanding.

Not necessarily. It depends on what time of the year you go. Aug and Oct usually has the highest number of nurses (which are overwhelmingly female), but remember Docs, PA's, PT's, and MSC's go too, and those groups tend to be high percentage male. The Spring and early Summer has a high number of MSC's and PA's.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Okay, still better than say Ft. Benning.

[airjun]

Ft Suck My Ass Benning where if youre dumb enough to bring a girl friend, wife or daughter onto post you have to grab her hand every time you see joes walkings towards you. Sounds like a post for me.....

[Skull6]

Bullis is a nice little postage-stamp sized piece of real estate to train medical-types on.

Let us know if Dirty Nellie's is still down on the Riverwalk. FUN place!

[armynurseboy]

Bullis is a nice little postage-stamp sized piece of real estate to train medical-types on.

Let us know if Dirty Nellie's is still down on the Riverwalk. FUN place!

Hated Camp Bullis... :X Damn place was so friggen overgrown that whenever we went out to train land nav for EFMB you ended up having to either A) cut trails through knee high wait-a-minute vines or B)crawl on your hands and knees under low lying cedar trees....

[Cerebroden]

ever been blanding?

[Birddog]

Two places you must go on the river walk... Dick's Last Resort and Howl at the Moon...

Dick's is the only bar I know of in a hospital and Howl at the Moon is a place you take a group of people... (a dueling piano bar) it's a load of fun...

[armynurseboy]

ever been blanding?

Yes. We went up there for pre-camp and FTX's when I was in ROTC....

[Cerebroden]

banana spiders as big as dinner plates and I wish I had brought my machete

[Skull6]

Wonder if those spiders made it through Katrina?

(I didn't know you were asking ANB if he'd been there. I was putting together a stinging retort! LOL)

[Aries]

yeah. blanding.. fun..

no map landnav where you cant even go 20 yeards forward without having to go 30 around. yeah, that turn 90 degrees bullshit is fun when you are surrounded by spiders to the 270 degrees that you want to go

[armynurseboy]

Wonder if those spiders made it through Katrina?

Only the strong ones....

[Skull6]

I read a joke once that said the only difference between Blanding & the Amazon rain forests was that at Blanding, the monkeys all wear uniforms...

[CombatCady]

Wow. I've never even been to Blanding, but I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing my ass off, Skull. I don't think my prof would like that very much.

[Birddog]

I went to Blanding once and there was a Arkansas NG unit there... Out of the woods comes a Arkansas NG soldier with one boot, looking like he had been through hell... uniform torn, sock gone on the foot without a boot... I said, "Good night...what happened to you? Did you lose your boot? He said... "Nope, found one...!"

[Aries]

those woods are horrible

[Skull6]

Cady, no sweat. Got LOTS of friends who actually like to do their thing at Blanding.

In fact, I was conversing with a few last night. They'd rather have jungle warfare taught there than in Japan. Too bad the PTB decided to move it from Panama!

[Aries]

the worse thing about blanding..

Starke. with the "sports bar" that has one 17" TV

[Skull6]

Why do you need a bar on post? Just look where you can be in, say 2 hours drive...:D

[Aries]

who gives a shit about post bars. i want civilization dammit

[GIJared]

any of you med service guys(or gals) who've been through know much about how getting to flight school through them works? currently, its my #2 choice because of that, but I've heard the whole medevac thing is going to change.

[armynurseboy]

any of you med service guys(or gals) who've been through know much about how getting to flight school through them works? currently, its my #2 choice because of that, but I've heard the whole medevac thing is going to change.

I've also heard that Army MEDEVAC is going away and all patient transport will be CASEVAC only. If you really want to fly, go Aviation. If you you go MSC, you will become a MED PL somewhere first and foremeost. In the old days, you appled to flight school usually after you completed your first tour (what my MED PL did after we got home from Iraq). Don't know what's going to happen to all the MSC MEDEVAC pilots. They could branch transfer them to Aviation branch and let them fly Blackhawks there.

[GIJared]

aviation is my first choice, med service is just my 2nd so I can fly for them if the accessions computers decide to place me elsewhere. I just don't want to end up in med service if they are getting rid of the medevac route.

[PRM16Tiddle]

Whats on the schedule for tomorrow:

Customs & Courtesies
Branches of the Army
Equipment of the Army
Duties, Responsibilities & Authority
Physical Training Programs


should be fun..... :X

[armynurseboy]

Whats on the schedule for tomorrow:

Customs & Courtesies
Branches of the Army
Equipment of the Army
Duties, Responsibilities & Authority
Physical Training Programs


should be fun..... :X

Eh.... Stay awake in class and enjoy San Antonio while you are there.....

[CombatCady]

Whats on the schedule for tomorrow:

Customs & Courtesies
Branches of the Army
Equipment of the Army
Duties, Responsibilities & Authority
Physical Training Programs


should be fun..... :X

Sounds like MS-I year...

[armynurseboy]

Whats on the schedule for tomorrow:

Customs & Courtesies
Branches of the Army
Equipment of the Army
Duties, Responsibilities & Authority
Physical Training Programs


should be fun..... :X

Sounds like MS-I year...

Gotta remember, AMEDD is one of the few departments in the Army that takes folks right off the street with no prior military training. Ya gotta start somewhere......

[Aries]

yeah. id love to see JAG OBC

[CombatCady]

ANB, that's true. I always forget that.

[I274]

Yeah, my son went to AMEDD OBC earlier this summer – with all the other Docs and Vets from direct commissioning. He never had ROTC - - so this was a true “education” for him. He particularly enjoyed Camp Bullis – doing land nav and shooting the M16 and 9mm.

His classmates looked up to the few who were either prior service or some USMA grads going to med school. They were the only ones who knew what was going on. They didn’t have any ROTC or nurses in their course.

His course doesn’t look any different than PRMTiddle’s (looked at the web site – same curriculum). If she’s been thru ROTC, the classes will be boring; but the social life should be fun.

[Associate289]

meaning shes gonna cheat on c...

[Aries]

yeah right. dude, u have no idea what it would take to make that happen. the girl is psycho obsessive when it comes to that kid. guys more likely to get a nut chopped off than to bust one if he trys anything. ive never seen love like that, except for in the movies when the couple breaks up and the girl starts stalking the guy and slashing his tires and such. but that would never happen.

[armynurseboy]

meaning shes gonna cheat on c...

Myabe not her, but there are A LOT of OBC flings.... ::wtfo::

[PRM16Tiddle]

1. already seeing people hooking up (we've been here for a week....thats just gross.)
2. There isnt anyone here even 1/2 as hot as C.
3. Cheating...not happening...even if I WANTED to...lol...I think my hunny would probably hunt the guy down and put 3 inch screws through his knees...and I wouldnt want that to happen to anyone.. well....maybe some people :)
4. today was TERRIBLE. woke up at 2am, PT test (did a pretty good job), pretty much went through MS3 year (TLP's, Oporders ect.) and then when we had gone through the whole days's schedule....they surprised us with a briefing on everybody's favorite topic........finance. ugh....

[Flyblack60]

Hey Tiddle,

I was in the class that just graduated on the 27th of September. OBC is a cake walk, especially if you were in ROTC. Yes, the 3 weeks in the field is newly implemented, my class was the second class to go through that so you will be the third. I hope you enjoy using the combatives pits as much as we enjoyed making them (Filling Sandbags is a B#*$@)
I am a 67J but went through the 70B track. If you have any questions at all just post them and I'll try to keep you on track the best I can.

[zfynxs]

Curiosity question, when you go through MSCOBC, you start as 70B, Right? How do they determine if what AOC you're going to get be it dustoff, admin, etc? Do you finish out 70B core just to go and be schooled in your specialty area? That would have to suck for the 67j's, MSCOBC, then flight school.

[Cerebroden]

fly back...just so you know she's in the field till tommorow

[armynurseboy]

Curiosity question, when you go through MSCOBC, you start as 70B, Right? How do they determine if what AOC you're going to get be it dustoff, admin, etc? Do you finish out 70B core just to go and be schooled in your specialty area? That would have to suck for the 67j's, MSCOBC, then flight school.

Well, first off, all AMEDD officers go together so it's not MSCOBC. Each branch has a branch track that varies in length. ANC is (or was) 3 days long. MSC was like 2 weeks or something. It's in branch track where you learn branch specific stuff. For MSC's they tend to focus a lot on being a Med PL's (70B stuff), as that is what the majority of MSC's do right off the bat. I'm not sure if they break off the Social Workers, psychiatrists and other non-leadership specialties that are lumped under MSC. As far as MEDEVAC pilots go, do they even take direct acession MSC's from ROTC? Every MSC pilot that I've ever met was a 70B first, then went to flight school after their first tour. From what I've seen, vanilla MSC's don't really start to specialize (ie medical logistics, ESO, etc) until they are already past their first couple of years in.

[Flyblack60]

Hey everyone...

Okay, to set everyone straight. Yes, you can branch directly into Dustoff/MEDEVAC/67J, there were 10 of us in this past AMEDD OBC class. You DO NOT have to be a 70B first. To do it, you need to choose Med Serv as your first choice and Aviation as your second choice. In addition, in your comments make sure you mention that you want to fly medevac.

Training - for training as a 67J you will go through AMEDD OBC and once we split off into our tracks you will go with the 70B's and do everything they do, then you will have follow on orders to report to flight school. No 67J's have their first duty station because their first station is considered Ft. Rucker for flight school.

Yes, 67J's and 70B's split from optometrists, social workers, dieticians, nurses, etc. Everyone has their own track at the end of the OBC track

MEDEVAC will most likely be turned over to aviation within the next 5 years, but nothing is set in stone yet. While I was at OBC we talked to a few pilots and there is a lot of talk about it.

Please let me know if you guys have any other questions

[zfynxs]

ok put MSC first then AV. I imagine they are going to want me to be able to pass a flight physical prior to ascensions. There's the problem, I have every intention of doing PRK/Lasek (there's an e in there) as soon as I commission. However until that's done, I will fail with flying colors owing to my 20/5000 vision (give or take a thousand, I never learned how to convert it). That makes my chances look really bad doesn't it?

[Associate289]

I do believe you're shit out of luck until you get that surgery....

[killernurse]

There's the problem, I have every intention of doing PRK/Lasek (there's an e in there) as soon as I commission. However until that's done, I will fail with flying colors owing to my 20/5000 vision [...]That makes my chances look really bad doesn't it?Actually, I believe it's Lasik, but right now think the Army only approves PRK. Can't help with the rest, but 20/5000 doesn't look good for your chances right now.

[Krizo]

I think I read somewhere that Lasik was waiverable. Hmm.

[Associate289]

I believe its really both....

technically its
Laser epithelial keratomileusis (LASEK)

but just like the duck/duct tape thing, its also been transformed into LASIK

[armynurseboy]

I think I read somewhere that Lasik was waiverable. Hmm.

It is for your run of the mill grunt, but not for pilots, divers or any other specialty (read SF) that has potential rapid pressure changes to the eye. As KN mentioned, as of right now, they are only waiving PRK. And with a prescription that bad, they may not be able to do laser eye surgery anyways (unless you have thick corneas).

[Flyblack60]

Yes, you do have to pass a flight physical prior to commissioning to be qualified for medevac. I had LASIK right after advanced camp then took another flight physical when I came back to school. If you have not gone to camp yet, make sure you take one there as well as take the AFAST (Army Flight aptitude test) with your ROTC battalion. They are both required. It is a possiblity to commission as a 70B into medical services and then submit your flight packet later to attempt to get a medevac slot, but there are no guarantees, I have met a couple people that have done that, but not many.

[Flyblack60]

The army will only DO PRK, they WILL authorize waviers for LASIK

[Sammy Sandbag]

AFAST (Army Flight aptitude test)

Actually it's the Alternate Flight Aptitude Test. 8)

[Krizo]

What's the "S" for?

[Sammy Sandbag]

Woops, I didn't even realize I left that out. Alternate Flight Aptitude Selection Test.

[zfynxs]

Lasek is a variation of PRK that uses an chemical solution to get rid of most of your cornea vs. scraping it off. It's supposed to be less painful, have fewer incidents of haze and halos, and a quicker recovery time.

[Krizo]

I wear contacts. I've never heard of PRK. How much does each one cost about?

[Associate289]

about a henweigh.....

[armynurseboy]

The army will only DO PRK, they WILL authorize waviers for LASIK

They do LASIK too...

[armynurseboy]

Lasek is a variation of PRK that uses an chemical solution to get rid of most of your cornea vs. scraping it off. It's supposed to be less painful, have fewer incidents of haze and halos, and a quicker recovery time.

Nope. Lasik is when the doc cuts a flap of your cornea and folds it back, then a laser zaps the area exposed vaporizing off layers. Then the flap is put back into place, and hopefully doesn't detach. No chemicals involved... other than the topical anesthesia used. Yes it has a much quicker recovery time, but because you have to cut into the cornea, there is a possibility of loss of orbital integrity.

PRK is where they use a laser to vaporize off the superficial layers of your cornea, essentially reshaping it. No scraping involved (just feels like it). The Army and AF prefer it because there is no actualy cutting into the eye, so orbital integrity (thus regidity) is maintained (thus avoiding the problem with older procedures like RK where changes in atmospheric pressure would actually change the shape of your eye, thus distorting vision).

[armynurseboy]

I wear contacts. I've never heard of PRK. How much does each one cost about?

Depends on how bad your eyes are. The higher the prescription, the more it will cost. Also the higher the prescription, the more chance that they won't be able to do it due to having to take off too many layers of cornea.

BTW, I don't recommend wearing contacts in the field. I can't count the number of conjuctivitis cases I've treated because dumbass troopies don't want to listen. I even had to evac one dude out of theater due to it getting so bad; he had ulcers on his eyes....

[Aries]

ha.. new cadets always tried to get away with that shit at USMA. girls hated wearing the BCGs

[Krizo]

BTW, I don't recommend wearing contacts in the field. I can't count the number of conjuctivitis cases I've treated because dumbass troopies don't want to listen. I even had to evac one dude out of theater due to it getting so bad; he had ulcers on his eyes....

Longest I've worn them "in the field" is around 30-35 hours. My vision is pretty fucked. It was great 'til I got to around 7th grade then it went to shit in half a year. The doctor said if it wasnt correctable that I would be legally blind in my left eye.

[zfynxs]

LasEk is a variation of PRK that uses an chemical solution to get rid of most of your cornea vs. scraping it off. It's supposed to be less painful, have fewer incidents of haze and halos, and a quicker recovery time.

Nope. LasIk is when the doc cuts a flap of your cornea and folds it back, then a laser zaps the area exposed vaporizing off layers. Then the flap is put back into place, and hopefully doesn't detach. No chemicals involved... other than the topical anesthesia used. Yes it has a much quicker recovery time, but because you have to cut into the cornea, there is a possibility of loss of orbital integrity.

There are two different procedures, Lasik and Lasek. Lasek is a variation of prk. You have to get in the control group for lasik for anything with Av and special forces and dive school and halo has a strict hell no policy. Prk and Lasek require a waiver I think, maybe not sure

[zfynxs]

i'll learn to quote later i'm out for the night

[Flyblack60]

The price does not change with the prescription of your eyes. They do the same procedure no matter what, the only difference is the number of times the laser hits your eyes.

Also, the reason you are not eligible is NOT because of your prescription it is because of the thickness of your cornea. If your cornea is too thin, they will not do LASIK because it it possible to tear, in that case you may be eligible for PRK.

[Krizo]

Sounds dangerous as fuck, are the percentages good for successful surgeries over totally screwing up your eye(s)?

[Cerebroden]

my mom has had hers done, my step dad, 2 aunts, 3 uncles, no problems...i've heard of the need to use eye drops more often

[neo]

My comment on this thread: When visiting my buddies at AMEDD OBC all they did was get drunk. Every single night.

[armynurseboy]

The price does not change with the prescription of your eyes. They do the same procedure no matter what, the only difference is the number of times the laser hits your eyes.

Try telling that to a civilian opthamologists. They definately charge more for bad eyes.

[armynurseboy]

My comment on this thread: When visiting my buddies at AMEDD OBC all they did was get drunk. Every single night.

Yeah, sounds like AMEDD OBC hasn't changed a whole lot... :D

[Flyblack60]

Army Nurse Boy

I had mine done by a civilian opthamologist.

[armynurseboy]

Army Nurse Boy

I had mine done by a civilian opthamologist.

I don't know which eye doc you go to, but around here they start at like $300 per eye go from there. I almost had mine done by a civilian after I got back from Iraq, but he wanted to charge me like $1.5k per eye because I have a high degree of astigmatism as well as being really myopic. I passed and am debating on wheter I want to get on the waiting list here at Ft Carson to get it done by our docs. There are new procedures coming down the pipe that are better for really high prescriptions that are better than LASIK or PRK.

[Flyblack60]

$300 per eye?!?!?! Dude, you must have gone to some crazy guy that got his license off the internet. Mine were like $2000 per eye, went to a corneal specialist that fixes people who had $300 per eye jobs. I have the same things as you do...myopic, 20/800 and astigmatism. Trust me, I've done tons of research on the subject, and a few other people in my family have gone through the same thing.

[PRM16Tiddle]

I LOVE CAMP BULLIS!! I think it is the best place on earth. maybe someday I'll get stationed there.................. :-?

[Associate289]

great, you're back... now C can stop looking at midgetporn online, and upgrade to cybering over AIM with you...

[PRM16Tiddle]

I guess we really DO have it better than others.....


boy at another OBC: do they gas you guys in the field?
me: yeah
boy at another OBC: awesome
me: we did that on thursday
boy at another OBC: i was about to complain if they didn't
me: it wasnt that bad..
me: not as bad as at nalc
boy at another OBC: oh...they hit us while we're sleeping
me: oh really?
boy at another OBC: yep
me: we just did the chamber
boy at another OBC: day or night
boy at another OBC: anytime our security isn't paying attention
boy at another OBC: ....or falls asleep
me: security?
me: lol
boy at another OBC: ok, say no more
boy at another OBC: i don't need to be bitter before my football
boy at another OBC: hahaha sorry



I decided not to tell him that we sleep in air conditioned tents on cots....

[Wes]

I hate you.

[CombatCady]

Hahahah, that's evil, Tiddle!

[Associate289]

and then people wonder why the brass thought up of BOLC...

[armynurseboy]

and then people wonder why the brass thought up of BOLC...

Kinda. Unlike other support and service support branches, AMEDD officers ARE NOT combatants, which is one reason why AMEDD OBC is set up the way it is. We aren't allowed to lead combatant troops. We aren't allowed to employ offensive weapon systems or tactics. Other support branches are (yes even those lowly trans and log guys... ;-) :D ). If we happen to find ourselves in combat, our job is to keep our heads down and not get killed so we can do our job (help the wounded) AFTER the fight, not participate in it.

[CombatCady]

Y'know, I really respect you guys and your branch. I know that if I were in your shoes - say, walking down the streets of Fallujah with some grunt line company - and Haji started firing, I'd be firing right back and trying to end some human life. I also realize that that would not be the wisest decision for a medic in combat. Far from it. And for your ability to restrain yourselves like that (not to mention your dedication and commitment to saving the lives of US troops), I have lots of respect.

[Wes]

Everyone loves "Doc".

I'm yet to deal with a nurse though.

[Cerebroden]

hold the fuck on, I guess I read the rules wrong or something.. you mean to tell me she can't shoot back??? baby we need to talk

[Wes]

Well if they get within 9mm range... but Docs/nurses don't carry anything bigger. And you better hope to hell you aren't "in the shit" to the point where you are in 9mm range.

[PRM16Tiddle]

Well if they get within 9mm range... but Docs/nurses don't carry anything bigger. And you better hope to hell you aren't "in the shit" to the point where you are in 9mm range.

dont know if it's different 'over there' but I have a girlfriend (nurse) who is in New Orleans and she carries an M16...

[Wes]

OCONUS(9mm) vs. CONUS(9mm/M16/M16203/M4) and Federal troops don't get to have ammo, unless Martial Law is declared by Congress.

[zfynxs]

what's the point of having it if you don't have ammo?

[Wes]

what's the point of having it if you don't have ammo?

Did you know they didn't have ammo?

Most civilians don't either. It is a show of force when they just need the bodies there.

[armynurseboy]

Well if they get within 9mm range... but Docs/nurses don't carry anything bigger. And you better hope to hell you aren't "in the shit" to the point where you are in 9mm range.

dont know if it's different 'over there' but I have a girlfriend (nurse) who is in New Orleans and she carries an M16...

When I was in Iraq with the Cav, I carried an M-16 (with a full basic load thank you very much ;-) ) because we ran short of M-9's and it was between me and the dentist who got the pistol. They trusted me with the M-16 more than the dentist (I can shoot expert with it on a good day ;-) ). The MD's and PA's carried M-9s. Our medics carried M-16's. My friends in the CSH who were company grade nurses also carried M-16's.

The point is, it really isn't so much what you carry (up to a point) as how you are going to employ it. For us medical types, our weapons are there for self-defense and the defense of our patients, period. If our aid station or hospital is being attacked and/or you or your patients are in immediate danger of getting killed, yeah you shoot back (which also covers the situation with combat medics). But we aren't going to go out and conduct offensive ops or patrols, and we technically aren't supposed to pull guard duty beyond the confines of our hospital or aid station. And the medics who do go out are there for medical support, not to be another grunt. After all, if he or she gets hit, who is going to take care of the wounded?

[armynurseboy]

Everyone loves "Doc".

I'm yet to deal with a nurse though.

Well, when I'm the one giving you morphine and other drugs to take away the pain from having your leg blown off, you tend to have affection for us too.... :D

[armynurseboy]

what's the point of having it if you don't have ammo?

They probably had ammo, just not issued out. Like Wes said, unless martial law is declared, AD troops cannot carry live weapons or enforce local laws (the Possed Commitatus act). Which is why I find it hilarous when all those wankers were screaming why we didn't send in federal troops after Katrina to resotre order - WE CAN'T.

[Sammy Sandbag]

the Possed Commitatus act

errr..... Posse Comitatus ;-)

[Associate289]

Kinda. Unlike other support and service support branches, AMEDD officers ARE NOT combatants, which is one reason why AMEDD OBC is set up the way it is. We aren't allowed to lead combatant troops. We aren't allowed to employ offensive weapon systems or tactics. Other support branches are (yes even those lowly trans and log guys... ;-) :D ). If we happen to find ourselves in combat, our job is to keep our heads down and not get killed so we can do our job (help the wounded) AFTER the fight, not participate in it.

Yeah, but it can't hurt to send everyone to a couple month long course. Will they ever use anything that was taught? Probably not. But if they do, they will happy as a pig in shit that they know it.

[armynurseboy]

Kinda. Unlike other support and service support branches, AMEDD officers ARE NOT combatants, which is one reason why AMEDD OBC is set up the way it is. We aren't allowed to lead combatant troops. We aren't allowed to employ offensive weapon systems or tactics. Other support branches are (yes even those lowly trans and log guys... ;-) :D ). If we happen to find ourselves in combat, our job is to keep our heads down and not get killed so we can do our job (help the wounded) AFTER the fight, not participate in it.

Yeah, but it can't hurt to send everyone to a couple month long course. Will they ever use anything that was taught? Probably not. But if they do, they will happy as a pig in shit that they know it.

I could see sending MSC's to it. I don't see sending docs, nurses, PA's or any of the other specialties....or chaplains either....

[armynurseboy]

the Possed Commitatus act

errr..... Posse Comitatus ;-)

Yeah that too....